Scottish national

[humungus]

Does anyone know if it is true that the 9 anglers <myself included> who got their limit at carron in the national prelim but missed out on weight on the day are being let into the semis? I"ve got my fingers crossed.

[Daver]

As far as I know nope you will not get into the semi's.

There was a statement at the agm if an angler bags up then they will get through. But you had better ask John Kaye as he will know better as he was also one of the anglers who bagged up and never went through.

Anyways who are you? You can PM me if yopu want

Dave

[meiklebin]

Two or three years ago at an Agm there was a proposal to put through anyone with a limit but it was rejected.
Personally I think it was maybe a little unfair when guys were catching their first 6 fish really early 11:00am and not getting through. There were around 8 guys finished by 12:00am and only half qualified.
Could they not have allowed c&r and allowed you to take the chance by putting small fish back!.
There's not a really cut and dry answer but I feel that would have been better.

[fidfish]

Hi Guys

If I am right in thinking that all waters fished in this comp. allow C&R, then there is an easy answer to this problem. Adopt the same system as is used in the SANA Rivers comp. where fish are measured by a controller and returned to the river. Points are awarded per fish and also for length. All boats should have a boatman who could do this. This points system has already been used on the Lake a couple years ago for a World team qualifier.

Cheers
Kenny

[meiklebin]

And on Carron in the europeans. The only problem is getting enough boatmen who are willing to spend?give up their day to sit in a boat with 2 strangers. Boating is good fun but usually you do it for a mate so at least you've 1 person in the boat you get on with. Ther must be around 150 boats in the prelims that's alot of boatmen!.

[fidfish]

Hi Meiklebin

As far as I am aware , every boat should have a boatman although I know that sometimes, on Carron and Mentieth particularly, boats do go out without boatmen. I would think that the same system of using friends etc. could still be used if the measure for each fish was confirmed by the opposing angler.

Cheers
Kenny

[peepingcaddis]

Kenny , heard the news welldone mate.

[osprey]

my mate went out in a prelim and he had more fish than some qualifiers but.
he didnt get thru, why should they

[Daver]

Kenny,

The only time a boatman is required is the final.
Myslef personally prefer not to have a boatman at the lake due to the fact the boats are too small and so easily moved around, three in a boat there is not only dangerous but also pretty cramped, it does have its advantages as you can hold the boat in areas but i prefer to put up without so i can have more space in the boat.

There is nothing to stop the angler measuring thier fish between them or giving a 1lb for every fish caught and returned. But the rules are the way they are and its really up to the individual whether they try for bigger fish for their limit and also do they return fish on the hope of getting bigger fish.

My mate returned about 7 or 8 fish at carron on the hope of bigger fish because of what had happened on the tuesday, he eventually killed his limit at 2pm and got through but it was all natural fish and he had no stockies he was lucky but his poor boat partner caught 1 i think and had to watch him returning fish.

The Loch is the same now also 8 fish under 20" limit, but the only thing there is you can take as many over the 20" limit as you catch, but thats a 3lb+ brown at that size. So do you kill 8 natural browns at 10" or do you hold out for the stockies, thats what competitions are all about thinking and making the right decisions on the day.

Cheers

dave

[piscator]

Why they don,t operate a time bonus once the limits are reached are beyond me. It,s the only sensible solution. It,s just another farce in scottish fishing.

[Foxy]

Daver,
I thought you had to kill your first takeable fish in the national,< only return undersize fish>

[ArrogantBee]

Piscator,
I disagree with time bonuses, you might as well take the view that first to limit is the winner! The time bonus system encourages stockie bashing and panders to the less skilful anglers. The problem is that we have competitions that are a hybrid between the time a competition lasts, the quantity of fish caught and the overall weight and is dependant on particular fishery rules.

If there is an eight fish limit (or whatever) and the competition is fished over eight hours, then the heaviest bag overall should win without time bonuses. That way the anglers who know where the better fish live (arguably the more difficult to catch) are more likely to succeed over the guy who heads for the pipe and bags up in the first hour. It also assumes that the bagged up angler would have caught more fish... not always the case. How many of us thought Milan were going to come out the second half during the week and score more goals?

If the fishery allows catch and release, then it is fair to allow a pound or so for every fish caught over the limit number, then everybody can head up the pipe and stockie bash until the cows come home. However, it would reflect the winner being the angler with the most fish. I don't mean to sound glib, but if competitions are biased in favour of a particular style of fishing, then it's fundamentally unfair.

Imagine if the Champions League final had played to a three goal limit and a goal was added for every ten minutes played after a team had scored its "limit". Liverpool could never have won that game even if it had lasted all week.

AB

[piscator]

AB,where is the pipe in menteith, where is the pipe in Carron, and where is the pipe in Awe. You,re talking about Leven again, and if it weren,t for the stockies this year on leven, you would have been picking names from a hat.To use your own words" fundamentally unfair", I think it is fundamentally unfair to have "bagged up" and not qualify, which seems to have been the nature of the thread in the first place. "a particular style of fishing" Hmmmmm, they all do the same on Leven, chuck it out, and pull it back.

[fidfish]

Hi Dave

As Foxy says I was led to believe that there was no selective catch and release allowed and that competitors should kill all fish caught over size and up to bag limit. Robert Murray qualified on that Tuesday and he backs this up so I don't know why it was allowed in the later heat.

I would certainly go along with selective C&R but would prefer to see the measure system introduced with no catch limit as then all competitors could fish out the whole session. This would negate the argument for selective C&R and time bonuses and create a more level playing field.

Cheers
Kenny

[fidfish]

Hi Stevie

Thanks mate.

I'm controlling on the Tummel tomorrow, should be an interesting day given the conditions we've been having and the number of quality anglers in the field.

When do you fancy that day on Carron?

Cheers
Kenny