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Post by mattwright on Feb 4, 2006 16:05:23 GMT -5
I am just amazed at all this. Loch Leven is probably the most famous brown trout fishing venue in the world. Its fish went all over the world. It is steeped in history. I don't even need to stress this point further. Yet what has been the reaction from most anglers? Well its varied but essentially instead of a major outcry and a massive camapign to restore the quality and deal with local farmers etc, instead over the years we have just seen limp whingeing and calls for more rainbows to be put in, followed finally by what appears to be just ignoring the place. There is also whingeing about the RSPB. They are not always my favourite body but lets be honest they don't faff around, if they want to do something for birds they do it...buying up whole areas and protecting them, launching massive campaigns etc. Its upto us as anglers to prove we actually care about our native fish, our sport and the countryside. Loch Leven can be brought back. If it isn't we have ourselves to blame, nobody else.
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TOSHY
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by TOSHY on Feb 8, 2006 7:09:53 GMT -5
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Post by gillaroobay on Feb 9, 2006 17:42:56 GMT -5
Are we going to see a Loch Leven Sailing Club next?I know the laws are changing regarding launching boats etc are we going to see Leven go the same way as Rutland and sharing the Loch with sailing boats .Sadly i think the water quality in the Loch is destroying the fishing (the cormorants too) ,when was the last time you saw a caenis or curly bum hatch on Leven? I will try and get over this year and fish Leven as i feel it is nearing its end as a fishery as we have known it . Regards GB.
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Post by northdeeps on Feb 10, 2006 13:12:42 GMT -5
I totally agree with your sentiments mate ,but what i think we need is a person like our friend Bruce Sandison to lead the charge,someone who can fight the cause and talk for the body of anglers who show an interest in trying to save our fishing ,SANA dint seem to be showing any interest on our behalf ,what people don't seem to realize is that the longer we wait the worse the situation will get ,it ain't just trout waters these critters are hitting they are also attacking the rivers,canals etc ,I expect you have the same problem in Wales as elsewhere England got the go ahead to kill more cormorants this year why not us, Toshy, I don't think we can cite the cormorants alone as the main cause for the slump in the Loch's fortunes as a fishery. For years Loch Leven has been a dripping roast to the Montgomery family, but since this recent crisis they seem too impotent to bring about the necessary improvements required. Why? In these freedom of information days, it would be interesting to find out , if we could, how much revenue the Montgomery's have realised form the very bodies they're now at odds with. I'm only guessing, but do they get money from: SNH; Local farmers; Kinross wool mill; RSPB; Tayside council; Scottish Executive; SANA; etc? The demise of the fishery has to fall fairly and squarely at the door of the management - they are the ones that hold the key to it's future success. The situation at the place is way more complex than one issue with way too many self-interested parties for it's own good. I've said it before and I'll say it again, unless we are prepared to mobilise and take on the establishment, we're stuck with the problem and fishery management needs to find inventive ways around the predicament. However, I don't think Scottish anglers have the melons to do such an unspeakable thing as put self-interest behind them and fight for something so fundamental. Most of the firebrands I know are now supping soup with the very people they were once at odds with. It seems that you only ever get acceptance into the "establishment" if you are prepared to play the game and capitulate on your principles! Sandison isn't the guy to lead us... Toshy (metaphorically speaking) is! northdeeps
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Post by gillaroobay on Feb 10, 2006 13:47:03 GMT -5
If it was the Montgomery familys sole source of income i suspect we wouldn't even be talking about a problem at the Loch. Regards GB.
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Post by secretary on Feb 10, 2006 15:08:29 GMT -5
Can I just say that as much as the owners of the loch had it good for years 'as you all seem to think anyway,' Might I just add that if it were any other buisness it would have closed it's doors in 1991. After scum Friday in June 1991 that really was the final straw for the management.
'89' was a great year, 90 wasn't so good so the anglers started going away, then algae forced us to close the doors for a couple of weeks in 91, that I know for a fact should have been an end to the fishery as far as Montgomery was concerned, but, as you say he'd had it not bad for a year or 2.
I say not bad cause on a good year it took till August to break even. There were not many good years from 1965 till then, the only differance was, there weren't so many fisheries in those days so most of the anglers stuck with the loch and accepted they may go home with a fish or not as the case was at times(which so called todays anglers do not accept).
From when the rainbows went in it was very difficult, the loch and management were(are) up for far more critisism than ever before. Sir David put a lot of funding into the rainbow trout project only to get it thrown in his face 2years ago. very seldom did the loch make money in those years and it most cetainly isn't now and hasn't done for a few years now.
One thing you didn't mention North Deeps is the displacment of water due to gravel extraction which is one of the major problems wee have.
I.E. No natural recruitment of stock into the loch during the summer months.
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Post by northdeeps on Feb 10, 2006 16:05:41 GMT -5
Can I just say that as much as the owners of the loch had it good for years 'as you all seem to think anyway,' Might I just add that if it were any other buisness it would have closed it's doors in 1991. After scum Friday in June 1991 that really was the final straw for the management. '89' was a great year, 90 wasn't so good so the anglers started going away, then algae forced us to close the doors for a couple of weeks in 91, that I know for a fact should have been an end to the fishery as far as Montgomery was concerned, but, as you say he'd had it not bad for a year or 2. I say not bad cause on a good year it took till August to break even. There were not many good years from 1965 till then, the only differance was, there weren't so many fisheries in those days so most of the anglers stuck with the loch and accepted they may go home with a fish or not as the case was at times(which so called todays anglers do not accept). From when the rainbows went in it was very difficult, the loch and management were(are) up for far more critisism than ever before. Sir David put a lot of funding into the rainbow trout project only to get it thrown in his face 2years ago. very seldom did the loch make money in those years and it most cetainly isn't now and hasn't done for a few years now. One thing you didn't mention North Deeps is the displacment of water due to gravel extraction which is one of the major problems wee have. I.E. No natural recruitment of stock into the loch during the summer months. Michael, It would be remiss of me to claim to have any great knowledge of the depth of problems that faced the fishery, or he management over the last few years, but there are one or two things that don't make sense... well, to me anyway. of course you can remember the kafuffle during the early nineties when residents of the sewage catchment area were being encouraged to buy phosphate free soap powder from Davy Sands in order to minimise the levels that were being pumped into the loch from the local sewage works. A sewage works that we were told couldn't cope with the levels of waste we were generating at that time. However, it wasn't beyond some idiotic town planner to allow the building of at least a further three large housing schemes putting even more pressure on an already defeated sewage system! How much of that particular land was owned by the laird? If any, how much did he make from the sale thereof? The reason the rainbows were put into Loch Leven was to keep bums on seats. I believe it was seen as a cheaper (sic), band aid option that would see the fishery through some difficult years instead of facing the real issue , which was the demise of natural stock regeneration and the shite that was being pumped into the loch at the time. I said it at the time and will say it again at the risk of being lynched, the loch should have been closed and subjected to a five-year regeneration plan in collaboration with all the bodies we are now at odds with. It would have saved his lordship a fortune in losses and we would, I think, be looking at a much healthier scenario today. northdeeps
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Post by johnmac on Feb 12, 2006 16:18:20 GMT -5
My old Neighbour who passed away recently fished Loch Leven in the early 50's for the first time and he said it was amazing! You got the boat at the jetty they use now and a guy to row it for you. Every Brownie he caught was between 1lb and 2lb and the only fly he used was an Alexandria....... you then dropped the boat of at the sluices if the wind was too strong. how times change.
Under-investment has been a problem. But the main problem has been pollution. the loch is very shallow and the water exchange is probably similar to the mediteranean! The weeds bad, the silts bad. the coarse fish are bad. the cormorrants are bad. The sea gulls and birds carry the snails... which cause the eye-fluke. The run-off from agriculture is huge. and the cashmere plant has polluted it a few times! you could be here all night going on about the problems! shame! shame!
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Post by mattwright on Feb 13, 2006 14:41:20 GMT -5
The issue as I have said is the environmental management of the lake. Responsible anglers and fishery owners should be focused on that. Anything else is to the detriment of angling and anglers. I could actually put up with sail boating (like on some of the Lake District waters) even if it spoils the atmosephere IF the water was looked after so that quality was good and regeneration was good. The answer to me seems to be to grown on the natural brown stock in a large stock pond and put back in at a size that cormorants are less able to feed on. BUT this should be in parralel with a serious environmental campaign on the whole surrounding catchment.
Matt
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Post by secretary on Feb 13, 2006 14:44:30 GMT -5
N.D. the laird owned none of the ground that the houses are now built on.
Under investment has NOT been a problem with the loch.
We are not at odds with any-bodys, None that could do any good anyway.
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Post by gillaroobay on Feb 13, 2006 16:04:20 GMT -5
How long can the Loch go on running at a loss not many businesses would carry on the way Loch Leven has done .I would wager if any other Fishery in Scotland had the problems Loch Leven had they would have closed the doors long ago.It is my favourite place to fish in Scotland and i would hate to see it go down the tubes . Cheers GB
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Post by northdeeps on Feb 13, 2006 16:09:09 GMT -5
N.D. the laird owned none of the ground that the houses are now built on. Under investment has NOT been a problem with the loch. We are not at odds with any-bodys, None that could do any good anyway. Michael, If the Laird didn't own any of the land sold, then I apologise for making that association and any implication that people might take from that. I also never made any accusation of under investment. I did, however, say that I thought the introduction of the rainbows was a cheaper (sic) option. Perhaps those were the wrong words, when I was really driving at the futility of introducing rainbows into a fishery that needed much, much more from all concerned parties. Let's get one thing straight, Loch Leven fisheries doesn't have an automatic right to exist, in the same as we fishermen don't have the right to fish for trout on its waters just because we've always done so. As naff as this might sound, we aren't custodians so we can enjoy the fruits of the place. No, our commitment is to our children and their children's children. Whether we like it or not, Loch Leven has been failed by everybody concerned and for that we should all hang our heads in shame. The day we stop pointing the finger at everybody else and start shouldering our part of the blame, the sooner we can get on with the job of fixing this problem. As soon as the fishermen, SNH, RSPB, fishery management, and SANA get off the self-interest bus and stop bleeting about the injustices meted out to them by everybody else, is the first day on the road to recovery. I've always maintained that the problem is a complex one and have never , that I can remember, blamed any one group or individual, because I don't know enough about what went on to do so. But I will say this: The Montgomery's own Loch Leven and if anybody has the power to fix this, they do and more to the point they have a duty for the sake of the loch to do so! northdeeps
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Post by jimdoyle1 on Feb 14, 2006 17:14:43 GMT -5
Fine sentiments north deeps, so where do we go from here? There are still too many vested interests around the loch that see no commercial advantage in helping the loch to recover. We can all harp back to the days of the late Mrs Faulkner, days when every boat on the loch was booked for the season, it was then that development should have taken place. The sticking plaster approach of rainbow trout did not work simply because that is what it was, the introduction of 30,000 rainbow trout to a water that size was , as they say a drop in the ocean. look at the stocking policy of Chew . The fact that the decision to put rainbows in the loch at all was regrettable, but the fishing public were clamouring for it, a fact that some seem to forget. I reckon that it would take at least 90,000 fish of above 11/2 lb to make any impression on the loch, yes the stocking of batches of brownies provided sport for short periods of time but it was localized and over quite quickly. The fish caught on the last match were empty. I love the loch and will continue to fish it . I,m used to fishing big waters for little return, but I accept that I have to work to get any return. I think there needs to be a concerted effort by all fishing bodies at least to try and come up with a cohesive plan of action, perhaps the Wild Trout Trust would be the place to start. Jim
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Piker
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by Piker on Feb 15, 2006 12:53:47 GMT -5
Looking at the thread it seems like there are many people interested and concerned about the state of the Loch at present. It would be interesting if Michael could intimate any future action plan to tackle some of the problems, if nothing is done and the Loch continues to lose money then the end must been in sight.
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Post by secretary on Feb 15, 2006 16:38:38 GMT -5
Piker I love the way people are sometimes so pesimistic. Maybe I just hate to even think think about the end drawing closer, cause your right, it doesn't look good from a greedy fish catcher's point of view. But, from from an Angler's view I would say it's looking quite good.
Last year, as i've already pointed out, was an improvement on the previous year.
This season there are double the number going in.
What loch leven needs is Anglers to come back to the loch, whether that happens or not is in the hands of the elements. We the management have worked harder than ever this winter to make it possible for it all to come together. But, we have no say on the main problem we encounter during the season, WATER CLARITY. It's one thing, that all we can do is keep our finger's crossed.
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