peterz
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by peterz on Sept 11, 2005 17:27:28 GMT -5
I was out on the loch today. It was busy, I got the last boat. But the fishing was woeful. It was just stocked on Friday and most of the boats were continually on the move to try and find the new stockies. The local club did well but almost everyone else blanked.
I was expecting a good day, mid september, warm, breezy day with ample cloud cover. But didn't get so much as a rise within casting distance and nothing even looked at the fly.
I can only assume all the algae keeps the fish right down.
As for becoming a water sports venue, I wouldn't want my children spending too much time in that water.
Surely the solution lies in getting the water clarity and quality improved. Which, by all accounts, means keeping check on what flows in off the farmland. Far from simple but I would have thought that would go a long way to getting the fish back and there by the fishers. People won't fish if they don't have a chance of catching anything.
If the fish were readily caught it would be an outstanding venue. Scenery, accessibilty, facilities, atmosphere and history.
Here's hoping a solution does get found. It has to.
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Post by Kirkaig on Sept 12, 2005 14:41:01 GMT -5
"here's hoping a solution gets found. It has to".
Does it? Who has the true vested interest? We do. Anglers. And we aren't doing enough (are we doing anything?)
Good for you taking a boat and supporting the place. Glad to hear it was busy (albeit only some of the fleet in the water).
Anyone else feel motivated to do more?
K
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Post by Marble on Sept 17, 2005 6:44:03 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
This is strictly not about the fishing but might be of interest to all of us who have fished the placed over the years.
It comes from the SANA Office at the Loch.
For those of you who are interested in WWII memorabilia, earlier this year a company called Sea-Tech Exploration carried out an initial survey of the Loch where they had evidence that two Hurricane aircraft had been lost in the loch plus it is rumoured that there are two small gunboats sunk somewhere as well. The rubber nosed sonar equipment was rather badly gashed on something sharpish, maybe a gun turret or a tailfin? The two guys have dived but it is so dark and murky to be impossible to make anything out as anything would be buried under the silt, they also said it was quite a frightening experience. No wonder then that fish are not caught, the Brownies can't see the d**n flies, the loch's too dark! This company which surveys and finds wrecks has been back now for over a week with another week to go and the sonar readings they have taken so far suggest that (as of this morning) there is evidence of a line of debris leading to a very large object just south of St Serf's island. Apparently, the two Hurricanes were lost not through battle but through pilot error, the records show they were probably doing things they should not have been doing like flying at zero feet and they crashed. The pilots were recovered but I'm not sure if they were alive. I'm going to get a full report before they leave next week as it makes interesting historical reading. They are off to Ireland soon to survey a loch which has two B17 bombers and another loch in Scotland with a Junkers 88. I was speaking to Murray Blair of Glasgow recently who is into historical things. He said that the loch was used by the Germans as a marker before going on to Glasgow so the gunboat theory might be right. If anybody has any additional information, it might be useful to pass this on to the team surveying. Thanks, regards, Alastair SANA and S&TA(S) National Game Angling Centre The Pier, Loch Leven Kinross KY13 8UF Tel: +44 (0) 1577 861116 Fax: +44 (0) 1577 864769
Marble
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Post by secretary on Sept 26, 2005 14:52:11 GMT -5
Hi. Loved reading all the script on the loch. The first thing that amazed me is the this big secrecy thing. Why hide behind a computer screen. Talk. There seems to be a genuine concern from many anglers about leven, so, talk to us about it.
I am going to try and answer some of the questions, and please if there are any more ask, but, remember, i dont like getting shouted at.
BOATS. Yes some of my comments on the price were as you said, £1500 or rot. Maybe not the greatest sales pitch in the world but i'm not a salesman. We did however get a good price for many of them. Now there is some for £100, but, NOT, rotten and I can assure you of that. Yes, you can put your fingers through some of them, thats weather cracks .
PERCH. Thats laughable to think there is something that could kill perch and not trout, accusing management of that is crazy. The demize of perch was long before they got this disease. That however just added to there decline drasticly.
Watersports. Never. Go to the loch and read S.N.H.'S policys on watersports on loch leven and you'll see what I mean. They will stop all watersports soon as they are disturbing the wildlife. So they say.
SPAWNING BURNS. A lot of work has been done on spawning burns, but, there is only so much can be done, this is one of the problems. However other things are more important.
Sampling. S.N.H. does samplr the water on the loch. A company called f.r.s. from Edinburgh have sampled the water for 30 years on loch leven. I'm sure you are aware though this helps us none. Water quality in the loch to me is the single most important issue. If the water was clear or had an average clarity of 2+ metres through-out the year, I would like to bet my life on the improvement it would have to the fishing on the loch. A report issued not long ago states, the water on loch leven is not getting any worse, but on the same note, is getting no better. What could the loch do. I know, nothing. The farmers in the area would have to stop spraying pestisides. Sewage would have to be totally redirected from going into the loch( the so called treated stuff I mean). Farmers illegal chemical dumping of stuff such as sheep dip solution, this is packages I have found on the shores of the loch several times which is as bad as cymag in a system. Sorry I do go on. None of this stuff will stop, not in our life time any how.
I only hope some of you anglers do come back.
Thanks for reading.
Michael Wilson.
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Post by Chris on Sept 26, 2005 15:01:53 GMT -5
Michael, well done for coming on and answering the questions posed in the above thread.
Will be interesting to see what some of the more regular anglers on Leven have to say.
Regards,
Chris
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Post by Kirkaig on Sept 27, 2005 6:40:09 GMT -5
Also appreciate hearing some of the answers. Not sure what you mean about secrecy. Some of us are being more than up-front here about our concern for the Loch. As you see from my earlier posts, I'm more than willing to help, but I'm not sure what this might be (do you need an extra pair of hands to help with spawning burns?) Alasdiar's post about war planes seems to side step all of the questions - thank you for tackling most of these.
Please also be assured that the majority here (and I don't have a mandate) seem genuinely concerned about the Loch (happy to shout with you, not at you, as it were!) Questions remain, however, about what can be done and what will be done to restore Leven to its former self. I suspect that this will need effort on a huge scale involving a support package at a national level. I'd be interested to know whether there is any prosepct of this and, if not, what plans there are to garner such support?
Kirkaig (Jonathan Atherton, Edinburgh)
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TOSHY
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by TOSHY on Sept 27, 2005 8:20:36 GMT -5
Michael glad you have come on the Forum to highlight some issues,but you could give the members an update on next years stocking procedure i.e. how many troots are going in.I think the loch can only get better as the stock is increased each year,i only hope that the management keep it up as promised ,and i also hope that more anglers support the loch as it is them that will help keep things going .I can assure you that i will be fishing the Loch next year Tosh
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Post by Dunbar on Sept 27, 2005 8:46:54 GMT -5
The way I see it, continual stocking of Loch Leven to address 'the problem' is like applying a sticking plaster when the patient has a chronic illness. The problem seems to be a much wider and complicated one associated with long term eutrophication and water quality issues. There is no quick fix and this is 'the problem' with your regular angler who wants more fish tipped in without dealing with the real issue at hand.
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Post by secretary on Sept 27, 2005 13:32:26 GMT -5
Spawning burns are no doubt nothing like they used to be. The work done has involved asking farmers to fence of areas of burn on there ground. This may seem trivial, but , can asure you ,it has helped loads where it has been done. But I cannot put my point forward strongly enough, it's the water quality. The same farmers fencing areas of, are then spraying with this and that to rid there crops of pests and unwanted weeds. We have tried to tell some of them about this. I'm sure you have an idea what what there reply's may have been.
Take my hat of to S.A.N.A., now there's somthing you'll not here me saying often, but back in 1992 when we got a bad bloom of algea, they went round the doors of the locals in Kinross and Milnathort handing leaflets out. Those leaflets contained info letting them know what damage likes of the fairy liquid and Daz they use, was doing to the loch. This I know may seem trivial and small scale, but is what I mean about many problems not just farmers.
Just to answer the question on stock for next year. Regardless of the sticking plaster comment.
I understand the comment, but would you rather we stocked none!!!
We know that isn't the answer to the problem, but it softens the blow when all those anglers come running at us demanding there money back.
At least 40,000 brownies going in at 3 stocking points.
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Post by osprey on Sept 28, 2005 11:25:43 GMT -5
Do you think 40,000 is enough stockies for a place that size
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Post by 3lbgrayling on Sept 28, 2005 13:24:49 GMT -5
michael. are SNH.going to allow you (the fishery) to address the problem of the cormorants. 6 months left to their own devices. that a lot of fish food,saw a report that they probably eat most of the stocking.is it possible? jim
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Post by secretary on Sept 29, 2005 13:32:06 GMT -5
Answer to the cormorants, an emphatic no. It would be nice but S.N.H. have there excuses never to allow us to shoot another cormorant on loch leven again. Main one being that it's a world heritage site,sssi, and, many other pieces of crap they come up with.
The thing the corries stopped us doing was stocking the 5-9" fish at the begining of the season to supplement the stock which used to come down the burns in the summer. All the cormorants do is gobble them up in the winter regardless of how many fish there are put in.
March 2002, 300,000 of those little fellers were put in, this mainly resulted in, that winter,500-700 cormorants fed very healthily that winter, providing little or none of the poor wee blighters a chance of showing the following season.
I would love to put in 60,000 - 80,000, but , that in brown trout numbers is a big task. We do know we will have about 60,000 brownies, but, we must sell some to try and get our-selfs on our feet. How ever if they are not sold they will go into the loch.
But to answer the question straight, I don't know. If you fished the loch this season up 4 days after a stocking there was still sport to be had at them, so I would like to think that with double the amount or more it should do the same or maybe more ( fingers crossed).
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Post by Kirkaig on Sept 29, 2005 14:35:59 GMT -5
Michael
Regarding the uncompromising position of SNH. Have we tried an open letter to the First Minister, outlining the effect that cormorants are having on a piece of scottish sporting history, and asking what the Government intends to do to satisfy the questions of hundreds of anglers (the undersigned)? Stating the obvious, but anglers are voters. Look what people power has done for the cormorants (the ever strengthening RSPB).
Coupled with a well organised press release in the nationals this might just get the attention of Ministers? At least to get the debate out in public.
Might have all been done before, if so apologies for stating the blindingly obvious.
Thanks again for continuing to answer our questions.
K
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Post by butterstone on Sept 30, 2005 3:56:04 GMT -5
Having dealt with SNH myself Leven are fighting a loosing battle as most of them are city dwelling pen pushers who haven't the slightest idea about the problems they create for others just trying to scrape a living together. We here at Butterstone don't have half the population of cormorants of Leven 90-116 birds were counted last winter. Surely if English Nature and RSPB understand there is a problem down South and allocated around 2000 licenses to shoot cormorants why not North of the Boarder.
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Post by Marble on Sept 30, 2005 17:55:27 GMT -5
A good point butterstone and one that is logical, but then politics is not often logical. Loch Leven has had the worst of all worlds for a long time and with the RSPB having a birdwatching centre looking out over the loch and it being a SSSI, then to shoot birds (even cormorants) will be resisted. The meetings held by SNH earlier this year to discuss views on access was almost 100% to do with protection of the birdlife. The reason that watersports are being resisted on the water is mainly to do with possible disturbance to our feathered friends. I (on behalf of SANA) had to make that point that the angling was of national interest, not just the birds.
Michael makes valid points but I would point out that SANA has done much more than have members post leaflets through the local doors, including lobbying government and SNH over the various issues and providing cash (directly and indirectly) to allow the National Game Angling Centre to be located there, when there were other options. SANA is made up of many angling clubs that have supported the water for decades, and who provide unpaid volunteers that have spent countless hours arguing the case for Loch Leven against the other vested interests.
You cannot force anglers to the water though, and because of the drop in catches, most have left to go elsewhere and will be hard to encourage to return.
History has shown that the loch has had peaks and troughs over the years - some even suggest that it has a 7 year cycle. However this one seems to be particularly bad as the angler support is at a very low level, even although some get passionate about it on this site.
Like so many things in life, it needs time to overcome it present difficulties.
Douglas Beckett
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