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Post by Allnips on Apr 14, 2006 19:07:17 GMT -5
Hi all,
Complete newbie to the tying game and finding it extremely difficult, although I can get by tying very simple patterns. I know that I should go for tuition, but normally I'm very good with my hands and have an eye for design. (I am a bit of a prefectionist and because this is making me look like Forrest Gump on crack.......I tend to shove it all away for a while and the try again!)
One thing that is really getting to me though, is that now and again, my bobbin when hanging freely, spins like a Rabbie Burns witch with piles!
I'm sure this is contributing to the many snapped threads I get. (Or maybe it's just sh#t thread and spinning is inevitable?)
Am I a prat? Or are there any tips to prevent bobbin spin?
Cheers
Col
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Post by Tango51 on Apr 15, 2006 1:25:19 GMT -5
The bobbin is spinning because the thread is twisted, it is simply untwisting itself.
Every turn of thread you put on the hook puts half a twist in the thread, if you need the thread to lay flat you have to take this twist out by spinning the bobbin anti clockwise (depending on what thread you are using).
Do you have trouble getting the thread to loop over materials when tying them in, does it always want to lie to the right? This is thread twist in action, before tying in your material spin the bobbin anti clockwise to remove the twist, the thread will now loop over either straight or to the left (assuming right handed tyer).
Too much twist in the thread will weaken it, it also makes it harder to whip finish as the thread bunches at the knot instead of pulling through smoothly.
Take the twist out as you tie and see if you find tying any easier, a small tip but it has helped me a lot......Thanks go to AlanB for that one.
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Post by AlanB on Apr 15, 2006 1:46:38 GMT -5
Allnips, You are right instruction is the best way to start. Without seeing exactly what is going on what I say will only be general advice. In my fly tying I find I am encouraging the thread to spin one way or another. The right handed tier, winding over the hook shank from your side to the far side will add a half turn of twist to the thread. This twist can build up and be concentrated together in the whip finish and result in the thread breaking. Usually I will encourage the twist out of my thread at two specific points in tying a fly. Once at the point where I have laid a foundation run of thread along the hook shank but before I put any materials in. Then again I unspin before whip finishing. As you look down at the top of your bobbin holder if it is spinning clockwise then then the thread is getting tighter. counter clockwise and it is unspinning. Some thread gets weaker if unspun. It is possible that you have the bobbin tension set at just the wrong point. i.e. So tight that the thread can be pulled off when twisted but too strong to let the thread out when untwisted. Of course without seeing it I can't know for sure. Some threads are "bonded" threads. They are made from fibres that are braided together. The most common example of this is UN Thread. It will maintain most of its strength when spun. Threads such as Danville's, UTC and Split second are made from fibres that are spun together. These threads flatten out completely. They can be weaker in the flattened state. All thread will spin if left to hang. You can turn this to your advantage. (Flattened spun thread builds up less bulk than tightly spun thread.) If your thread is breaking then I would look at the tension on your bobbin holder. It can be adjusted by bending the wire legs. Do not bend against the joint but hold one leg in finger and thumb of both hands to bend it. then do the same on the other leg. This may help if it doesn't come back and let me know what thread you are using. As for your last question I don't know you may be a prat but nothing you have asked there makes you one  I've just noticed that you are in Edinburgh. I am at the Tay meeting on April 29th if you could make it to there I'll gladly show what I can. (I'm not sure how I'm travelling yet but I may be able to call into Edinburgh on my way up or back if you need help. Let me know. Cheers, Alan. |
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Post by Allnips on Apr 15, 2006 5:09:12 GMT -5
Thanks guys, all makes perfect sense.
Always spins clockwise Alan and have never thought of unspinning it. Never really have problems tying other materials in Tango. Usually just stop the bobbin and continue from there. Maybe why I get so much snaps in the thread!
As always, I'm stunned but heartened by how much some people are willing to go out of their way to help others. This forum proves that there are some genuine people left in this world.
Alan, I won't put you out your way to stop off in Edinburgh. Is the Tay meet a salmon meet or trout?
Col
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Post by RoyChristie on Apr 15, 2006 6:05:26 GMT -5
Every turn of thread you put on the hook puts half a twist in the thread ] UNQOUTE.
For the sake of accuracy, the above is erroneous.
Should read..
Every turn of thread you put on the hook puts a full twist in the thread.
Just being pedantic
Roy ;D
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Post by Tango51 on Apr 15, 2006 7:02:17 GMT -5
Every turn of thread you put on the hook puts half a twist in the thread ] UNQOUTE. For the sake of accuracy, the above is erroneous. Should read.. Every turn of thread you put on the hook puts a full twist in the thread. Just being pedantic Roy ;D Thanks Roy, now I know I have to spin the bobbin more i.e. 20 turns around the hook, spin it 20 times to get it untwisted again, not spin it 10 times like I have been doing. Pedantic? Certainly not ;D Perfectionist? Maybe |
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Post by AlanB on Apr 18, 2006 9:24:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure about how I'll be traveling to the Tay Meeting. It is more of a show than either trout or salmon. Pat from Fly Tech is going to be there.
When I know what is happening I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Alan.
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