cheap flies - kenya

[T.Z.]

fliesperdozen.com/ - interesting Information about pricing. However, I guess a real wholesaler does give another 50% off on these prices. Does that make sense? I only had bad eyperiences with these cheapos.

[pint]

Almost everyone I talk to who has tried flies from Africa or Asia complain that the hooks are of a poor standard and the materials sub standard too, they drop to bits after only a few casts.

YGWYPF - You get what you Pay for !!!!!

[wigger01]

i have heard that quite a lot of the flies on the market are in fact made in africa, some good others not so good. A well known supplier in Ireland actually imports these flies and sells them under a different name, they are meant to be cheaper to import than actully to tye them..

[Brennan]

Fulling mill actually have a factory in kenya. I didn't know this until yesterday!

Brennan

[amk]

Well, In general I have the feeling that you can not be demanding to those people from Kenia tying flies. They are not fly tiers but factory, massive workers who work (unfortunately) for few pounds per day. They just do massive productions having no idea about flies, materials and fly fishing. They treat it as a product to sell without any passion from doing what they do. Factories in Kenya not only make a flies for Fulling Mill but mostly for all big fishing tackle companies around the world. Armin Pijawetz Who is probably the biggest one in Austria also have flies from Kenya, China or Taiwan. The same with Fishermen Partner from Germany and so on and so on. Now try to imagine how many flies per day such massive let say Kenya company have to make.

Regards
Michal

[Windknot]

There are good and bad Flytying factories- Fulling Mill's quality is pretty good. These factories are often managed by expats who are passionate anglers, and who know the difference between a good fly and an indifferent one- point in case being Murray Peddar who managed the factory in Zomba, Malawi.

It's easy to tar these factories with the same brush, but they provide employment in economically deprived areas, as well as earning valuable foreign currency for third world countries.

Are the workers being exploited? Hell, yes- but that's life. If it wasn't for the NHS I'd earn another £10 000 a year- someone's paying the price for cheap dentistry. So that point applies to everyone in the private sector.

If you don't like cheap flies tie your own, or support your local custom tier- I chose the former.

Soapbox is back under the bed now.

[pacres]

Most flies you find in the shops are tied in Asia or Africa. That is why they are so inexpensive. Support your local tyer, as they produce the best local patterns and will increase your success rate. The tyers in the factories most likely do not fly fish, and so have no idea about fly fishing. Just follow the patterns and crank out 50 dozen a week.

[Chris]

I import flies from Kenya. I can buy them in cheaper then I could buy the materials to tie them myself.

Please, before you knock the conditions and pay that the workers get, consider the following. In Kenya, the GDP is less than $500 US. Workers where I get my flies from earn $1000 per year. They have a job and they can afford to live relatively well. That is a lot better than many of their fellow citizens. So, now reconsider if they are being exploited as much as you thought before.

Chris

[Windknot]

Hear, hear!!

[Countryboy]

Chris and Jakes, you're both spot on there

C.B

[Diawlbach]

flyfishingguru said:

So, now reconsider if they are being exploited as much as you thought before.

Chris

I now realise that I was wrong to think that anyone was being exploited in this admirable venture.

£10.00 a week is a very fair wage in the circumstances.

[Sewinbasher]

I know nothing about the fly tying trade but I do know a fair bit about employing staff overseas having worked in the Middle East for 6 years.

The big mistake is to relate what other nationalities are paid to your own situation.

Why did I (or any Expat) go to Saudi Arabia? There's only one reason unless you happen to be a Muslim and that's money. I went from choice.

This was 20 years ago yet I was paid US$60k tax free, had 3 months holiday a year, two return economy flights for me and my family, a 5 bedroom villa with all utilities paid for, a food allowance, free private medical treatement and schooling, I had a Buick Le Sabre, a driver for my wife, I did have to share my swimming pool, squash court, tennis court, gym, gardener and library with a few other expats and I only had one live-in servant. I had marlin, sailfish, tuna, shark and bonefish fishing on my doorstep and miles of unspoilt beach and coral reefs to explore. I spent my weekends driving a big game boat on the Red Sea.

Any of you feel sorry for me? I thought not! Yet the Saudis did as they earned far more and lived a far more luxurious life style than I did and wondered how I managed.

Most of my 600 staff were Philipino, Indian, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, Somali, or Bangladeshi and, depending on their skills, worked 48 hours per week in temperatures up to 45C for $50 per month up to $1000 per month but slept four to a room, were fully housed and fed and had a month's paid holiday every two years whether they wanted one or not.

Every one of my staff was there by choice and earning up to 20 times what they would earn at home even if they could get a job, were delighted to be there and happy with their lot. OK for some of them the conditions at home pretty much forced them to work abroad but they were still happy to be there. Some of them were amongst the most wealthy in their home villages and employed several people on the back of the wages I paid them. Yet I bet some of you feel that they were horribly exploited, my wife did when she first came out. That's the point - you probably made the judgement based on your own standards and did not look at it through the eyes of the people affected.

I'm sure that if, as Chris says, these Kenyan fly tyers are earning double the average wage then they are not being exploited, don't feel expolited and are probably very happy with their situation.