Nymphs on a stream

[anderoo]

Hi everyone!

I've joined a coarse club which has a stretch of a small river (an upper Thames tributary) which holds some wild and some escapee brownies. I went for the first time yesterday evening and caught one on a small dry and lost another three - they're quick! I want to know how to fish an upstream nymph properly for when they're not rising. How do you know when to strike? With broken water I don't know how you'd see anything, and unless the leader is dead straight I don't see how watching the end of the fly line would help. Do you just grease the leader up to the tippet and try to watch that? Sounds pretty hit and miss!

Thanks for any tips

[Sewinman]

You could try the 'New Zealand method'. You put on a big bushy dry fly like an elk hair caddis as a strike indicator. You then tie a foot or two of line to the hook bend of the dry fly and put a gold head nymph on the end. Cast upstream and watch the dry as it drifts towards you, if it goes under there should be a fish on the end.

[anderoo]

Thanks Sewinman, that does seem like a rather cunning plan.

[3lbgrayling]

welcome to the forum anderoo,some good advice from sewinman there.

jim

[richarda]

You could try a bit indicator but you tend to get fish rising to it. Very frustrating! or just watch for the tip of the fly line to mover. very easily said but very hard to achieve!

Richard

[anderoo]

Cheers folks - just practice I guess

I went again after work yesterday and caught another 3 on a dry sedge - 2 tittle wildies and an escaped stockie of about 1 1/2lb (all brownies). It's easy enough when they're rising (in fact the little ones were leaping clear of the water trying to catch the sedges!) but I'll have to get to grips with the nymphing. It's all good fun though ;D

[jacko]

Anderoo - John Gierach has an excellent section in his book 'Trout Bum' about the art of nymphing in fast water - not so much instructional but inspirational, the books definately worth a read.

The nub of it is that is if you do it enough you definately develop a 6th sense and instinctively lift into fish that you know are there but couldn't explain how. When I used to fish nymphs on fast water it definately helps to use a leader material that doesn't sink so you can watch the bit where it dives under the water for any movement. Not easy at all if you're fishing at range, granted. Keep up with the line as it comes back down towards you too so you're in immediate contact too, they're so quick any slack can lead to missed takes when you strike.

[bignuts]

Quite late on this one but I have faced the same issue. What I now do is to tie in with a clove hitch loop, a small tuft of sheep's wool from the nearest fence. Dont worry about fish rising to it - you get used to ignoring that. Tie it in usually no more than a metre from the fly, but as little as 18 inches if the fish are right on top.
If you don't use some sort of indicator, its very hard - you are right. The other way is to retrieve your line as fast as the current flow and effectively to feel for the fish. This takes a lot of experience to really work consistently. however.
For the sheep wool indicator, all you need is about a cm of sheeps wool which carries lanolin, a natural water repellant, and which therefore remains buoyant.
I mainly fish nymphs on rivers and I have to say that I consider this the most skillful method of fishing with all its subtleties - not dry fly as some would have us all believe.

[elwyn]

The trick is to use as short a line as practical and so you can control line tension by rising the rod tip; you will see and with experience feel changes
Also, gentle lifts and small tugs will give life to your fly.

[FionnLoch]

Upstream wet fly is my default mode of fishing. I've tried various kinds of indicators (yarn, putty, foam beads, etc.) but I find they just make an extra commotion when they hit the water. I find I catch as many fish - if not more -without one. I use a shortish leader (say 9'-10') with two or three flies tied on droppers (maximizing my chances). I make fairly short casts, lifting the rod and handing the line in so as not to leave too much slack lying on the water. It's quite hard work: on a fast-flowing river you will find yourself casting every 10 seconds or so. I try to keep one eye on the the end of the line and the other on the general area where the flies are swimming. You have to develop zen vision: seeing everything but looking at nothing in particular, being one with the water, one with the rod and line; fish and fisheman both at the same time. You have to strike instantly if the line stops or shoots forward or there is a flash or a boil in the water where the flies should be. With a bit of practice, you will find you are striking into the fish before your my brain has registered any sign of a take. There's nothing haphazard about it: it's magic.

I've tried the NZ method on an off, but without much success. I had a nice fish rise to the dry fly the other day and of course I missed it because I struck too soon and plucked the fly out of its mouth.

[Dunbar]

fionnloch said:

With a bit of practice, you will find you are striking into the fish before your my brain has registered any sign of a take. There's nothing haphazard about it: it's magic.

The method described by Fionnloch is deadly and the quote above describes it to a tee - in fast water the rapid downstream movement of the fly line/cast often signals subtle takes and fish take an upstream wet with great confidence - they are often on before you know it. Small sparsely dressed spiders (Clyde-style)are ideal for this.

I agree that upstream nymphing is technically more demanding than dry fly a lot of the time, due to the extra dimension, but if fish are rising to your indicator frequently, why not just switch to dry?

[AlanB]

Jacko,
You beat me to it.
Zen and the Art of Nymph Fishing is the chapter in Trout Bum

"Student: Master, how does one know when the fish takes the fly?
Master: The moon is reflected in the deep pool my son."

And therein lies the art of nymph fishing.

The thing to do is go and do it. Strike at any slight movement of the line or even better just before there is an unusual movement of the line. Strike because you feel like it strike because its Monday just keep doing it. In time it will start to work. You will develop an extra sense (I don't say "sixth" because there are many more than five to start with).
Last summer I got out of practice and I know I will be spending ages to re acquire the skill. It takes a lot of work, and then some. Stick at it you will get to know.

Cheers,
Alan.

[squirrelblue]

Hi Anderoo

i have read this thread with interest,
upstream nymphing is my favored way of fishing .
one thing i would say, is to start with,
instead of fishing a fast run
try fishing the tail of a pool just before the fast poppaly water.
This is normally were the water pick up pace,and is normally flat.
because of the speed & flatness of the water when a fish takes.
the fly line is far more easy to spot, stopping or jabbing forward.
try this before you try the more riffley water, and you will be surprised how visible the takes are
SB

PS
the Rio midge tip is a top line for this sort of fishing.

[Pond321]

bignuts said:

Quite late on this one but I have faced the same issue. What I now do is to tie in with a clove hitch loop, a small tuft of sheep's wool from the nearest fence. Dont worry about fish rising to it - you get used to ignoring that. Tie it in usually no more than a metre from the fly, but as little as 18 inches if the fish are right on top.
If you don't use some sort of indicator, its very hard - you are right. The other way is to retrieve your line as fast as the current flow and effectively to feel for the fish. This takes a lot of experience to really work consistently. however.
For the sheep wool indicator, all you need is about a cm of sheeps wool which carries lanolin, a natural water repellant, and which therefore remains buoyant.
I mainly fish nymphs on rivers and I have to say that I consider this the most skillful method of fishing with all its subtleties - not dry fly as some would have us all believe.

Got to go with Bignuts on this one. Use the same method myself and it works a treat. Have tried a new zealand style dry, but feel that it makes casting tricky and there are twice as many things to get caught up on trees etc. The shortline approach probably the most efficient, but I find that on shallow, crystal clear, slow flowing chalkstreams you cannot get too close to the fish. Also, repeated casting freaks them right out

[RodKneeTrouter]

Anderoo - I assume that the club rules make it such that you must fish your nymph upstream?

In that case, you can always wait until the bailiff isn't looking and cast across and down Of course that's unsporting - and most respectable clubs 'wouldn't allow that sort of thing.'

In fast water, the trout can't see you as well, so you don't need as long a line. This makes it easier to watch and feel your line for takes - you can usually get away with 2-3 feet or less of fly line on the water in fast water. In fast water thats more than knee deep, try just high sticking, where you literally dangle the line in front of you with maybe 6 inches of fly line on the water, raising the rod as it gets closer. You would be surpised at how many fish are still hungry within 3 feet of you. High sticking also gets rid of drag from the fly line, meaning that (albeit short) the movement of the fly downstream is more natural.

As everyone else has said, in slower, clear water it just takes lots of trial and more error. I went fishing last weekend in those conditions where only 'the upstream nymph' was allowed. I followed the rules. 1 fish in 8 hours. I think I need to tidy my zen garden.

Mike