stu71
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by stu71 on Feb 21, 2006 5:40:52 GMT -5
Hi - new to the forum so apologies if this has been covered before... I was introduced to the double haul cast recently - brilliant, I thought! Just what I need for casting into winds and get a bit more distance. I'd never needed this cast before as all my fishing had been done on rivers not requiring additional shoot but am now on the reservoirs until March 1st. I can cast a good length but, why is it I tend to get quite a few trailing loops on the forward cast? When I was learning the overhast cast (a few years ago now!) I believe these "wind knots" were caused by over-powering the rod on the forward stroke. Is that what I'm doing now? and if so, what do I do to avoid this please? It could be that I'm creating too tight a loop on the forward cast? Does a correct double-haul cast have a very open stance ie the rod is arc is opened much more on the back cast once you get it going? 2 o'clock on the back cast perhaps? Any help would be greatly appreciated...
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Post by alberto on Feb 21, 2006 6:39:39 GMT -5
Double haul is not just for distance as you have pointed out use it to cast into wind on the forward stroke and it becomes a single haul. It is especially good for accuracy so I personally use it on rivers when dry fly fishing all the time. A good loop in any cast is shaped like the profile of an aeroplane wing as it goes through the air. This is produced by the rod tip moving in a straight path between back and forward stoppping points. Call these points the 'length of stroke' of the cast. Tailing loops are caused by the rod tip dipping below the 'length of stroke'straight line. This in turn is normally caused by to much power or to short 'length of stroke' for the amount of line out, the rod tip buckles and dips below the straight line I suspect that in your case applying the haul is causing the rod tip to dip and the result is the tailing loop. Try lengthening the stroke by letting the rod tip drift back slightly when you stop on the back cast easiest done by raising the elbow slightly maybe 1/2 inch. Then lead with the forward stroke before applying power to a stop on the forward stroke. I hope that this is clear and maybe helps a little.
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Post by Chuckfluffer on Feb 21, 2006 7:54:17 GMT -5
And you can tell where in the stroke the problem is by where the tailing loop is in the cast, if it tails early then your problem is at the beginning of your stroke, if tails late then the problem is at the end of your stroke. If it is tailing late then it probobly means you are apply a bit to much oomph ( technical term) late in the stroke and the tip is being pulled below straight line path. A bit of drift and a nice progressive acceleration to the stop should smooth it all out.
Mike
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stu71
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by stu71 on Feb 21, 2006 9:15:20 GMT -5
Thanks for that - much appreciated. The rod tip must be dipping under the "length of the stroke". The tailing loop is definitely at the end of the cast! A nice tight loop shoots out then hooks itself up at the last minute. B0ll0cks, I say!
Could you please explain this "drift" in a bit more detail? On both the back and the foward cast please?
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Post by alberto on Feb 21, 2006 11:48:51 GMT -5
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Post by rrw35 on Feb 21, 2006 14:39:19 GMT -5
Alberto pretty much covered it.. Another thing is when casting heavily weighted flies, they can cause the leader to dip under the SLP and catch the line. Money spent seeing a reputable APGAI would be a good investment if the problem persists.
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Post by rrw35 on Feb 21, 2006 14:42:17 GMT -5
Thanks for that - much appreciated. The rod tip must be dipping under the "length of the stroke". The tailing loop is definitely at the end of the cast! A nice tight loop shoots out then hooks itself up at the last minute. B0ll0cks, I say! Could you please explain this "drift" in a bit more detail? On both the back and the foward cast please? Drift is when you allow the rod to move back after the stop. It allows the line time to unfurl and increases the casting arc, and prevents "creep", which is moving the rod forward during the stop, before the line has had time to straighten on the backcast... Creep will also give you a tailing loop, as the tip will fall under the straight line path as you go for the forward cast.
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stu71
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by stu71 on Feb 22, 2006 5:38:22 GMT -5
Thanks for that. Much appreciated re the drift. I've nearly got it (that website is good!)...but...what I still don't know is to where I should be "drifting" to. On the back cast, for example, if I stop the rod at 12:30 on the clockface, how far more backwards should I be drifting? to 1 o'clock? further? I understand (from the sexyloops website) that I should be coming to an abrupt stop on the backcast, then at the same time as I come to the stop hauling down, then drifting and, at the point I stop drifting I should have my hand back up together again. This forms a nice tight back cast loop (which would be extremely useful for me when casting with a wind behind me). So how much do you drift - is it an exact science or would drifting "just a bit" do!
I'm booked in with an instructor soon so if this is getting too difficult no worries but any help before I go would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by thewickedpickett on Feb 22, 2006 6:16:25 GMT -5
for our purposes drifting isn't an exact science. Arden and co seem to drift almost back to the horizontal. when i do it i make sure my initial back cast is good and high ie where i stop is good and high almost vertical then i drift straight upwards and then backwards to near 3 o clock
hope this helps
theres another famous article on loops where he describes drifitng up and backwards.
works a treat
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Post by alberto on Feb 22, 2006 7:37:39 GMT -5
Forget a clock face and stopping at 12.30. The length of stroke depends on the amount of line that you a trying to cast. Short line is a short stroke, long line is a longer stroke. A long stroke in distance casting could be back to 3 o,clock if needed so forget a clock face. You need to lengthen the stroke with a double haul because you are flexing the rod more, this is the same effect as a longer line.
So maybe start with a simple overhead cast done correctly with no tailing loops etc then introduce the haul and because you have bent the rod more you need to increase the stroke length to keep the path of the tip straight the easiest way to do this is with some drift, lifting the elbow slightly. This also has other benefits like smoothing out the stop, incidentally you mention abrupt stop, try not to be abrupt as this is not good. Gradually as you put a longer line out you will need a longer stroke the drift can stay the same for most casters just lift the elbow, 1/2 inch here is probably 6 inches at the tip. Drift as you know lengthens the stroke and does all the other benefits that the Sexyloops article talks about.
A few lessons Fromm a GAIA member should be good and make things clearer
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Post by sportfisher on Feb 22, 2006 7:55:47 GMT -5
The drift doesnt need to be to far back unless you are going for maximum lead on the forward stroke for a very long cast.
What you are doing is
1.drifting backwards and upwards to maintain tension on the line. 2.Preventing forward creep. 3.Drifting also acts as a shock absorber on the rod tip as the line straightens out at the back. 4.loosening your grip slightly just after the stop on the backcast. This all helps smooth out your casting movements,can you imagine what would happen to your line if the rod tip was stationary when it straightened at the back(it would bounce and tension is lost)
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stu71
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by stu71 on Feb 22, 2006 8:46:04 GMT -5
That's great - thank you. All crystal clear now. I'm off to practice, practice, practice!
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Post by rrw35 on Feb 22, 2006 14:29:51 GMT -5
and then backwards to near 3 o clock Thats why you're hooking so much grass mate.. ;D ;D
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Post by mattwright on Feb 22, 2006 16:54:21 GMT -5
Good points...remember s-m-o-o-t-h a-n-d s-m-o-o-t-h.... but don't forget when you do perfect this that double hauling isn't a pre-requisite. Fish are more often than not close in,
Matt
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stu71
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by stu71 on Feb 27, 2006 9:15:22 GMT -5
Thanks for everyone's help. I managed to cast into the wind this weekend. We had an absolute gale blowing this weekend so although it was difficult to practice, it was well worth learning. I was the only one facing into the wind ;D. What I can't get my head around is that it seems totally back to front! ie when you hardly try for a long line, being smooth and gentle with the forward haul, the line flys out but, when you give it some "beans" it all goes to b0ll0cks! It's back to front! I know now that I've been trying way too hard on the forward cast haul and over powering the rod causing the trail loop. It's definitely all about timing, not power! Thanks again - very satisfying!
PS can you "haul" on a roll cast?
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