Split Cane Build Advice

[MickeyP]

Hi Folks,

I've just acquired a split cane blank (thanks PeteH) and am now trying to get the hardware together to complete. I've built one rod before on a carbon fibre blank and whilst I am very happy with the results (it's fantastic to cast and fish with) I know I can improve lots on the cosmetics. So I've a few questions and would appreciate any advice that anyone would like to chip in.

Firstly the blank is a 2 piece 7'6" 3# cane blank made by Colin Young. What guides would you suggest, and what guide spacing. I kind of like the look of the traditional lower set english snakes and an agate lined stripping guard any one know of where I can buy these from and any reason for not going with these.

I'd like a really good cork handle, anyone know who can supply a pre-shaped ready to fit quality cork handle.

As for reel seat I like the look of a cork reel seat with a couple of sliding nickel bands to hold the reel in place. Is this kind of reel seat still available? How secure are they? Should I just keep it simple and go with a reliable strubble?

On the carbon fibre rod I used araldite to glue together the reel seat and glue on the cork handle will this be ok for Bamboo?

I used black gudebrod thread for whipping on the guides before but am thinking of using Pearsalls Gossamer Flytying Silk on the cane blank. Will this be OK? Will I need to use a colour lock product on the whippings before finishing?

I'm planning on using Trondak U-40 Permagloss again to finish the whippings, is this product ok for a cane rod?

Is Flex Coat tip top adhesive ok for sticking on the tip ring on a cane rod?

Any input would be gratefully recieved.

Mick

[PeteH]

Hi Mick

The most comprehensive supplier of hardware for bamboo rods that I know of is Goldenwitch. They are great people to deal with.

The cork reel seat and sliding bands are ideal for light rods. i've used this set up on a few rods and never had any trouble with the reel slipping. Another lightweight option is a cork reel seat with a pocketed buttcap and sliding band. Struble also do several wood seats designed for light rods (Anglers Workshop carry a lot of Struble fixtures).
I use Alradite for the handles, seats and tip tops.
Pearsalls Gossamer is slightly trickier to use than Gudebrod A or 00 (if you can get it) but it can give a lovely finish and being silk is the more traditional approach. For varnishing I have only ever used Spar (Epifanes, available from boat chandlers) so couldn't comment on the Trondak U-40.
I'd avoid any colour preservers.

Pete

[finecanerods]

Mick,

Taking your points in turn:

You can get English twist guides from Guides and Blanks.

www.guidesnblanks.com/

And they will work fine but check the interesting comparison on the same website. Most people use American twist guides these days as they are available in a lot more finishes.

For guide spacing use either Wayne Cattanachs or Dale Clemens formula on Hexrod. I use small guides and would use 2 at size 2/0, 2 at 1/0, 2 at 1 and 2 at 2 and an 8mm stripper. If you are twitchy about the 2/0's just replace them with 1/0's.
Agates are available from Goldenwitch and REC at $25 plus shipping. If you want a white\clear one I make my own and sell for £10. A patient search of ebay may also get you what you want.

G&B supply quite decent cork handles, as good as or better than those sold in the states. If you want the very best buy shives and make your own but it is expensive.

Check out REC for reel seats they do a nice all cork version. Double ring seats are quite secure providing the ring fits well up on the reel foot. They also do classic cap and ring sets in aluminium and NS.

Nothing wrong with Araldite, I use it for most rod work.

The jump to Gossamer can be a bit painful. 00 Gudebrod is available from G&B and is relatively easy to use and will still go translucent in the lighter colours. Pearsalls Naples is easier than gossamer but comes in a limited range of colours.

Avoid colour preservers like the plague. Opaque colours may look OK on coarse rods and Graphite but they do nothing for cane and have a habit of failing when you overvarnish which is a start again situation. I have no experience of the U-40 you mention as I only use varnish. The trick is to use a thinned first coat to soak the threads and displace any trapped air to give a translucent effect. However this requires time, patience and many coats so you may consider the modern approach which is to use flexcoat thinned with acetone for the first coat. I saw a very good article about this recently. I use International Schooner a tung oil based varnish available from Chandlers.

Use Araldite for your tip top unless you already have some flex coat adhesive that will also work fine.

I assume as you don't mention them that your blank is already ferruled.

You can see examples of translucent whipping on my website www.finecanerods.com which also shows a range of agates.

If you need specific advice such as the full procedure for finishing whippings let me know and I can send you the list I have posted on the rodmakers site in the past.

Last but not least visit the rodmakers site for all things cane, link from my site. Have fun.

Gary

[PeteH]

Great looking site Gary and very reasonably priced rods, I wish you all the best with it.

Do you have any plans for producing the agates in other colours?

Pete

[finecanerods]

Pete,

I have some plum coloured unbezelled agate rings that I need to make bezels for but they are a bit chunky for fly rods. So far I have only used them for coarse rod butt rings. Got them off Russ at GW.

I may be looking into a source of supply for finer agates that I can use for strippers when time permits.

Gary

PS thanks for your kind comments

[Robin]

Do let us know when you have some other agates ready ,Gary.
I'd not only rather pay you than Goldenwitch,but its easier from the UK and you are most compettitive in your pricing.
Did you like the ferrules from Rainer?
Robin

[sandfly2]

Guide spacing , try this . All sizes are imperial .

From tip . 4 9.2 15.5 23 31.8 41.7 52.75 65 .


Davy .

[Pat]

Hi all,

Just to let you know there is a new Uk based website supplying Golden Witch and other makes at www.riversiderodcraft.co.uk
Although I'm not much of a rodbuilder I have started this little venture to try and make rodmakig more accessible to the UK (now I don't have time to learn how to make rods myself!)
Check it out and let me know what you think.
Cheers

Pat

[IanH]

I've finally gotten around to varnishing my new cane rod.

I'm using International Schooner.

Any advice on how many coats I should use - whippings & rod?

And any advice on how much I should thin the varnish for the coats?

Thanks
Ian

[finecanerods]

Ian,

Suggestions only as it depends on several factors including how you apply the varnish and the temperature.

Tip 2 to 3 coats, butt 3 coats, whippings 5 coats with first whipping coat thinned 15%. Rub down between coats with fine wet and dry, 600 plus. Schooner is very tolerant on overcoating times and preparation but the rubbing down is to give the best surface not just for bond. Wipe down with white spirit before varnishing and allow to dry fully, this degreases and removes dust.

When you have a varnish finish you are happy with you can remove any imperfections with 1500 plus wet and dry and polish to the required finish, rottenstone and oil for satin the best auto body polish you can afford for high gloss and french polish revivers for something in between.

Good luck

[IanH]

Thanks

I'm realising that there's more skill than meets the eye in getting a perfect finish to a cane rod.

Good excuse to keep practicing though.

Ian

[Silver Stoat]

Ian.

Dust is one of the biggest problems when trying to get a good finish.
It's worth giving some thought to where the rod will be left to dry and if you can, choose a room that is as dust free as possible and likely to have the least disturbance during the drying time.
Before you apply each coat, give the rod a quick wipe over with a 'tack rag' to pick up any bits and dust. You can prepare a tac rag by taking a small piece of lint-free cloth, say 3" x 3", dipping it into varnish (not you rod finishing tin - keep it separate) and squeezing out as much as you can.
Do this about an hour before you will need to use it so that the solvent can evaporate and leave just the sticky resin.
Alternatively, you can spray your cloth with an even coat of a (so-called) all purpose adhesive - the type used for mounting photographs. This will stay sticky for several days.

Obviously tacking is the last process you do before applying the varnish.

I haven't varnished a rod for many years now but have made and finished many cane rods in the past and always used my fingers to apply the varnish except for the fiddly bits under the rings.
This was a tip, given to me by a chap who worked in the industry at Redditch, that enables you to get really thin and even coats.

Dave.

[IanH]

I know what you mean about dust.

I've made myself a cardboard box to keep the dust off while it's drying and I have some tack rags from when I built some cabinets a while back.

Do you dry your rods vertically or horizontally? I'm thinking that if I do it horizontally then the rod might sag in the middle.

Ian

[finecanerods]

Ian,

I varnish in area used for that purpose only. There are no soft furnishings or carpet and so no source of dust and I don't go in wearing a woolly jumper!

I dip my rods with a set up similar to that used by Everett Garrison. I settled on this system after finishing over a dozen rods by other means. They are also hung vertically to dry.

If you are brush varnishing in a normal room wait patiently for a while before you start to let any dust settle and make sure you will not be disturbed. Follow the good advice above on dust removal but don't panic if you get a few specks as these can be removed in the finishing stages.

Several makers apply varnish by hanging the section and then pouring on the varnish before rubbing it off with the finger tips, not one for your kitchen!

One point I did not mention before but the object of applying several coats is not to achieve a thick build up. The final finish should be no more than a few thousands of an inch thick as each layer is rubbed back. The mulitiple layers are to fill up imperfections.

If you want to know more go to Todd Talsma's tips site via the link from the Rodmakers site. There are complete sections on varnishing.

www.canerod.com/rodmakers/

Gary