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Post by judgemichael on Dec 6, 2005 7:46:28 GMT -5
In these days of absolute Sh*** on the box I'd really like to plug the above program. Tuesdays nights are looked forward to simply because of this, and I can watch it 'live' now as it's NOT commercial TV.
Have got to the stage now with ITV, with a supposedly 1 hour show (taken up in extreme cases on prime-time by a total of 14 minutes of advertising) that I have to record ITV programs so I can zip thro' the adverts otherwise I just can't watch it without 'losing my cool'.
ANYONE that hasn't watched this is "missing out" it is compulsive TV.
JM
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Post by richardw on Dec 6, 2005 8:03:08 GMT -5
Do they still have that big headed woman on who ripped off her customers then dropped the company she was famous for?
I wonder how many anniversaries, birthdays, and other intended celebrations were completely ruined by her inability to deliver what the customer was paying for?
Gives entrepreneurs a bad name putting such folk on a pedestal like this TV programme.
When I come to power the second thing I will do is scrap limited liability. We will go back to "my word is my bond" and folks who gaily step from the wreckage of one company to simply drive the Bentley over to the next enterprise will only be allowed to do so when all the creditors are paid in full.
richard
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Post by job67 on Dec 6, 2005 8:20:33 GMT -5
Do they still have that big headed woman on who ripped off her customers then dropped the company she was famous for? Was that Red Letter Days? If so, someone told me that two of the other 'dragons' bought the company off her. No idea if that's true or not though. |
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Post by judgemichael on Dec 6, 2005 8:22:44 GMT -5
Yes, she's still on there complete with attitude. Apparently she went 'plop' and a couple of the other "Dragons" bought her company from her and I do think that this should be brought to the viewers attention. Also I think the Scotsman needs to start giving a little more encouragement to the applicants instead of " it's got nae chance of succeeding and 'aam oot'. Still all combines to make an excellent series IMHO  JM |
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Post by Berlin on Dec 6, 2005 8:28:02 GMT -5
Last series it was excellent.
Now it's turned into a group of 4 Well sited individuals Wringing ridiculously good deals out of genuine entrepeneurs for viewing pleasure.
It is no longer a program about getting new businesses off the group but one of 4 people screwing the last drop of blood out of new companies for their own financial gain.
I find it very difficult to watch now as I end up screaming "Tell them to stick their offer up their ****"!!! at the screen each time ar offer is made.
If each offer was the start of a negotiation process then all well and good, but offering £75 grand for 60% of someones life on a "take it or leave it, right now!" basis is just public extortion.
Shame on them. shame on the producers and such a shame for those asking for money.
Carl
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Post by Gnat on Dec 6, 2005 8:34:29 GMT -5
Agree with you, Carl,
Not sure what series I saw, but when I saw those so called entrepeneurs, I thought, my a**e.
The fekkers wanted a sure thing, not a gamble.
Pure extortion from the jumped up asswipes.
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Post by richardw on Dec 6, 2005 8:37:45 GMT -5
Far more impressive was "Make me a million". Started out with nothing but ideas and attitude. Ended up with a successful business.
richard
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Post by T.P. on Dec 6, 2005 8:53:03 GMT -5
I watched the first show of this series and the end of last weeks. I used to be a VC and frequently had very similar meetings where entrepreneurs pitched their business plans to me.
I cannot believe the low standard of ideas and people on this show. If you don't know your market, past and projected revenues, exit route and weaknesses then you shouldn't be there. Hopefully this has improved on other episodes.
If these people genuinely need funding and aren't there for the 'fame' factor it's because they cannot get the money anywhere else. That means that no-one will loan them the money. So Venture Capital or organic growth and self funding are their only options.
VC money is not secured, a VC works by having far more failures than successes. The successes hopefully pay for the rest.
If these guys pitching had better plans, with revenue streams then the perceived value in the business would be far greater and the percentage taken far less. VC's are buying a bit of the business for the money. If they pay £75k for 60% they value that business at £125k.
When only one investor is interested or doesn't want to invest the full amount and a second investor is called in some negotiations take place, but not a lot and mostly not about the valuation. It's usually more to do with the types of shares and whether a small loan amount replaces some of the equity.
However if several VC's want to invest then it becomes a sellers market and negotiation on valuation can start.
This situation is very artificial, it is television, it's designed for entertainment. But I expect if someone went on with a truly great idea and plan that they could get the investors to start fighting over them for then things would be a little different.
T.P.
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Post by judgemichael on Dec 6, 2005 9:04:24 GMT -5
Far more impressive was "Make me a million". Started out with nothing but ideas and attitude. Ended up with a successful business. richard The 'winner' was very fortunate indeed she had nothing not even an idea......... The 'baby shampoo' thing which won it was the thought of a pal of the "mentor" who featured in that particular pairing. Started with two girls both of who had young kids and they had the idea thrown into their laps.How they ever got chosen is a mystery to me but obviously one didn't make it through and the other 'copped for the lot' as the only order she ever needed ie;TESCOS was nailed-on  JM |
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KH KID
Full Member
give me a nanaa
Posts: 210
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Post by KH KID on Dec 6, 2005 9:05:07 GMT -5
good call the judge  best programme of the week. except champions league of course. |
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Post by nicepix on Dec 7, 2005 1:02:55 GMT -5
Jo, I agree. Some of these punters have absolutely no idea of a business plan. You would have thought that they would at least have brushed up on their research before pitching for somebody else's money. It makes me laugh when they talk of their 'brands' and 'companies'. Most of them haven't got anything other than an idea. Certainly nothing tangible. The two guys with the baby rocker last night were like a couple of club turns, and that was their second chance! Carl, There does seem to be a carve up especially when Theo scents a deal. But, come on mate. Half of a profitable business is better than the whole of a failed business venture? If these guys are investing a lot of money and their valuable time and expertise then I would sit back, let them get on with it and look forward to the future dividend cheques. |
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Post by Berlin on Dec 7, 2005 5:21:33 GMT -5
Hi Clive, I can see your point but instead of trying to fleece them for half the company, why aren't they trying to help each and every one of them?
I agree that some of the ideas and even more so, some of the people are not ideal for business but then this could be pointed out a lot more informatively than
"I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than invest in your company".
The only one of them that I would remotely consider doing business with in any way, shape or form would be the guy who sits on the far right.
The rest, I wouldn't trust with my pint never mind business!
Cheers,
Carl
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Post by Sewinbasher on Dec 7, 2005 6:04:06 GMT -5
The poor state of preparedness of some of the punters is laughable but makes good TV.
I often feel that the real benefit of an appearance on Dragons Den for the budding entrepreneurs is that quite a few of them will be getting phone calls from real entrepreneurs after the show as several good commercial business ideas that got bombed by the Dragons were actually not bad at all and will undoubtedly get funded through other sources.
I love when one of them has the confidence to tell the Dragons to shove their greedy offers - they've had the TV exposure and can start to wait for the phone to ring or chase other VCs in the general marketplace and have serious discussions.
Rachel did sell out to two other Dragons but they would not take the debts as I understand it - however they did honour most of the outstanding vouchers that had been issued.
I have to declare an interest on Make Me A Million as I work for one of the three "Mentors" and the sharp eyed may have seen me in one of the early scenes.
Having said that my money was always on the shampoo business (not my boss's team) as soon as they had dumped the non-performing partner. The biggest gaffe on the series was when another mentor turned down the chance to invest in the shampoo. For her the amount of money required was paltry and she was being offered a substantial share in a product that was already on the shelves in Tesco, selling well, and their only problem was filling the order book for several more major supermarket chains - what more do you want?
Far better televison than most of the "reality" crap on the other channels.
Brief aside - did anyone else catch the Fishing for Wild Images series that showed on Discovery Extra Time (Sky 135) last weekend? Great fishing in great locations, 170lb Nile Perch, smaller ones on the fly, Barramundi of over 60lbs, Barracuda of over 50lbs and Wahoo, Bonefish and others in the Pacific, Seychelles and Cuba.
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Post by Gnat on Dec 7, 2005 6:24:44 GMT -5
There's a similar style show on Irish tv and for me makes better viewing.
It works around successful entrepeneurs who are helping wannabe entrepeneurs with their ideas.
On the Dragons Den - maybe some TV watchers get a kick out of seeing someone being blagged, abused and sent off with their tails between their legs, but it ain't me.
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Post by Sewinbasher on Dec 7, 2005 7:37:39 GMT -5
There's a similar style show on Irish tv and for me makes better viewing. It works around successful entrepeneurs who are helping wannabe entrepeneurs with their ideas. On the Dragons Den - maybe some TV watchers get a kick out of seeing someone being blagged, abused and sent off with their tails between their legs, but it ain't me. The Make Me A Million series on UK Channel 4 is along these lines. |
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