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Post by Sewinbasher on May 4, 2006 15:43:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry if this has been covered before but how do you form a tight wing without spinning the deer hair round the shank?
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Post by thewickedpickett on May 4, 2006 15:58:53 GMT -5
use good deer hair for a start. the comparadun hair that flytek sell is great.
when tying cdc +elks i use the pinch and loop method ensuring that i do 2/3 wraps all one after each other. thats important that the wraps are not on top or before each other etc. also make sure when u are pulling down to secure each wrap that its a straight down pull not to the sides.
once the 2/3 wraps are done do not go back over them or u will flare them more. then do a wrap at 45 degrees to each side of the stumpy bit of deer left. then a wrap and finish in front of the stump.
There is another way but i dont get on with it. u pinch the hair then wrap it a few times before it goes onto the shank for tying in if u know what i mean. its meant to help too.
For me its all about bedding the hair down with a few good tight pinch and loops. obviously a level bed is good.
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Post by Braveheart on May 4, 2006 16:05:15 GMT -5
When you tie the hair in, to stop it flaring the first 2 or 3 wraps are what's called soft wraps, that means you pull the thread firm enough to hold the wing in place, but not so hard as to make the hair spin, then as wicked says don't go back over them, instead increase the pressure as you bind towards the eye.
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buzz
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by buzz on May 4, 2006 17:24:39 GMT -5
Hold the deer hair as tight as you can against the hook. As above do a couple of loose wraps before tying it tight. Someone also gave me a great tip and that was to trim the deer hair before tying it onto the hook.
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Post by whelzer on May 4, 2006 17:36:19 GMT -5
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Post by Sewinbasher on May 4, 2006 18:29:12 GMT -5
Many thanks for all your help.
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Post by skinhead on May 6, 2006 14:09:25 GMT -5
Top video. Will definately knock a few of these up in the morning. ;D
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Post by Ronn Lucas on May 6, 2006 14:27:59 GMT -5
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Post by Braveheart on May 6, 2006 14:41:01 GMT -5
That's a great way of tying hair on top of the shank Ronn, it's not one I would use on flies like the Elk Hair Caddis though, where I think, a small amount of drop-off (or roll if you like) is necessary for the desired appearance.
I would be interested in your thoughts on this.
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Post by Ronn Lucas on May 6, 2006 22:53:04 GMT -5
Just abut all successful tying relies on thread control. Thread control is even important for laying down a thread base on bare wire. Too loose and whatever is tied on it will spin. When I tie EHCs, I try not to tie the wing on the body materials. Thread control = where to stop each step. Most tyers I have seen, have medocre to poor thread control at best. They just didn't learn proper techniques.
If a wing is tied on top of dubbing or something else soft/flexible, when the thread is tightened, the material will flair, spin or just be loose. One can tie a wing on that "soft" bed when it is held very tight and kept from spinning by the left hand while very tight turns of thread are laid down with the right. I like my wings to sit upright and I often clip the hackle under the shank to get the fly to sit low on the water and provide more stability. If one wishes the wing to splay out to the sides, secure the wing as I show, place a couple half hitches on it and take the thread behind the first tie in turn with one or two soft loops while pressing the wing down, advance the thread back to the tie off area, one half hitch and whip finish. The last half hitch will keep the whip from pulling the soft turns from tightening.
I may not understand what you consider the "desired appearance". Can you show me one of your correctly tied fiies?
Happy Trails! Ronn
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Post by Braveheart on May 7, 2006 7:47:14 GMT -5
I may not understand what you consider the "desired appearance". Can you show me one of your correctly tied fiies? There are so many different ways in fly tying I think it's impossible to say what is " correctly tied" and what isn't, I think in most case it is more the tiers preference. The pictures and step by step by "flytier" here probably illustrate my preference better than I could. www.danica.com/flytier/steps/cdcelk/cdcelk.htmI understand and agree with your thoughts on thread control, and I never tie wings on the body material either, but I alway lay a thread base for them. Am I getting a little confused or do you tie your wings onto the bare shank ?
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Post by Flytier on May 7, 2006 12:50:11 GMT -5
Ronn, I know your question was directed at Braveheart, but in absolute terms the "correctly" tied Elk Hair Caddis has to be the way the originator, Al Troth, ties them. Here are three views on one Al tied and sent to me as a representative sample. The hair is positioned such that the lower edges of the elk hair wing can act as outriggers when the fly is on/in the water. Cheers, Hans W
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Post by Ronn Lucas on May 7, 2006 14:26:21 GMT -5
"...do you tie your wings onto the bare shank ..." Yes. Mine are essentially like that that Hans posted. In fact, I try never to tie a wing on any fly onto a dubbed body where possible.
Happy Trails! Ronn
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Post by halcyon on May 7, 2006 16:13:24 GMT -5
It also helps to use the proper hair which is yearling elk. Thanks for that tip Hans. Also, note that Al does not cover the eye of the hook with the head of the fly, a very common mistake in tying this fly by many folks.
Regards,
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Post by Braveheart on May 7, 2006 21:26:40 GMT -5
Thanks Ronn, and thanks Hans that's exactly what I was trying to explain. Am I right in saying that the whole head including the wing butts is soaked in varnish Hans ? Looks that way in the picture. Halcyon, You are right most people tie the butts over the eye, including me That was the way I was shown. I note also the wing length in Al's original is much longer than I tie. Methinks I will have to rethink my tying of this fly Just goes to show what a great resource we have here and how lucky we all are to have such knowledgeable tiers as Ronn and Hans on board.
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