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Post by Russ on Jun 29, 2003 4:28:52 GMT -5
Quite a detailed, specific question this one. I want to tie some deer hair wing flies (Wulffs, Trudes etc) following the original recipes, but as usual the deer hair is flaring too much. No amount of thread control will stop the hair I have from flaring so I'm tending to use Bucktail (too coarse) or Elk (too light). Received wisdom is that there is a strip of hair, about 2" wide running down a deer's back which is darker and which flares much less. This strip of hair is called the Gretzen, but I cannot find a supplier who has There must be some Gretzen out there, does anyone know how I can obtain some Gretzen please ? Thanks in advance Russ
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Post by alberto on Jun 29, 2003 4:53:18 GMT -5
Never heard of a gretsen, but from my own observations this would not be the piece that you would want it would be very coarse I think. From experience the best hair for comparaduns and humpys is ,coastal deer hair and I believe that the best hair comes from the mask, this is very short and fine, the legs and underbelly. Technique is also critical, stack the hair and ensure you remove the underfur, cut square and stack again. To tie in, a couple of secure wraps moving away from the wing then a tight wrap if that makes sense. For thread use moser power silk. I hope that helps
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Post by Flytier on Jun 29, 2003 5:17:52 GMT -5
Russ,
Wulff and Trude patterns are mostly tied with calf tail as the wing material, or some with bucktail. I cannot say I have ever seen them tied with deer body hair.
I do not know of a commercial source for Gretzen, but you might want to check with Steve Kennerk at Rocky Mountain Dubbing (http://www.rmdinfo.com/) If Steve cannot help you with this, I'd be stumped thinking who might be ;-)
Cheers, Hans W
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Post by Russ on Jun 29, 2003 9:05:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice guys, the RMD web page looks like it might contain some good info : [/i][/ul]Sounds perfect to me. Many Wulffs & Trudes do have calf hair wings (ever tried stacking calf hair ? Yuk), but for what it's worth the original Gray Wulff had deer hair tail & wings. Also, when Lee Wulff tied them the wings stood up at 90° to the hook shank & not pointing over the eye as nearly all commercial dressings seem to have. Apparently, he could tie them down to size 18 without using a vice. Err, I think that's where I'll stop in my quest for originality :-) I'm looking in Al & Gretchen Beatty's book right now and the Gray Wulff with deer hair tail & wings looks fantastic, and that's what I going for. Thanks again Russ
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Post by Muddywaters on Jun 30, 2003 13:10:38 GMT -5
One method I have read about for tying sloping deerhair wings e.g. Stimulator without them flaring unduelly is to first put two turns not too tightly around the wing (enough tension to hold the wing reasonably tightly, but not to cause it to flair) and to follow these with much tighter turns nearer to the head of the fly. These would normally cause the wing to flair, but this is of course restricted by the first two turns. I got this from an old fly tyers guild mag. and it works for me. Perhaps it could be adapted.
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Post by Flytier on Jun 30, 2003 13:35:50 GMT -5
Hi Russ,
Yes, Lee tied the original Grey Wulff with deer hair, _but_ it was tail hair (bucktail), not body hair (as is mostly understood by "deer hair"). Semantics, maybe, but in how the hair behaves a fair difference between the tail and the rest of the deer body hair when tied down under thread pressure.
Regarding stacking calf tail: Sure, there are easier materials, but hand stacking a bunch of calf tail strands is a pretty swift and painless operation, I find ;-)
Cheers, Hans W
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Post by Braveheart on Jun 30, 2003 18:29:23 GMT -5
Don't know if they still do it but a few years back i got a "hairs difference kit" from sportfish. It was a pack of different types of hair, elk, deer,moose,calf body etc and gave details of their propertie's and suggested uses, i found it invaluable and would recomend you get one.
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Post by Chalkstream Angler on Jul 1, 2003 3:26:19 GMT -5
Russ Give Peter Smith at Niche Products a call, he will be able to advise I'm sure. Tel: 01245 442041 www.nicheflytying.com/Tight Lines, Dominic.
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Post by Russ on Jul 1, 2003 5:56:34 GMT -5
Yes, Lee tied the original Grey Wulff with deer hair, _but_ it was tail hair (bucktail), not body hair (as is mostly understood by "deer hair"). Semantics, maybe, but in how the hair behaves a fair difference between the tail and the rest of the deer body hair when tied down under thread pressure. Thanks for this Hans It's the difference in behaviours between hair from different parts of the deer skin which was the stimulus for my original "where do I get this" posting as my understanding was that Lee Wulff used deer body hair in the Gray Wulff. If that's wrong, then it's wrong, but that's not my information. As I said in the first post on this thread, Bucktail and Elk both work, but they are wrong, and IMO they look it. I read Al Beatty's article on deer hair selection in the back of John Roberts book "The World's Best Trout Flies" (I like your Fox Squirrel Emerger BTW). Beatty insists that hair selection is critical, and he's right - I tied a fly using the wrong hair which made me laugh so much my wife came upstairs to see what the fuss was all about. It looked like two cheerleader's pom-poms on a hook ;D Anyhow, long story short, it turns out that Niche have Flordia Whitetail Deer which they say is similar to Texas Whitetail i.e. very fine, so I'll get some of that and give it a go. Thanks again Russ
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Post by Flytier on Jul 1, 2003 6:01:11 GMT -5
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