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Post by guinea on Mar 13, 2005 15:28:58 GMT -5
Before we all jump on those who wish to cath their bag, I'd like to make a quick point.
Last weekend I went to a water I don't fish often. I asked how it was fishing and unfortunately the answer was 'excellently'. I wanted to fish for a whole day so this would mean I'd have to buy a 4 or 5 fish ticket at £35+ rather than just £22 for a 2 fish ticket.
The water was rock hard. I got one and saw one other fish come out the whole day. Whilst I don't mind hard fishing I felt fleeced out of the extra money I spent.
If I am actively recomended to spend extra money I want to catch the fish.
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Post by The Famous Grouse on Mar 13, 2005 16:06:12 GMT -5
So you didn't enjoy the day fishing then, Guinea? I cannot help but notice you included no other details of the day other than the fact that the stockies weren't impaling themselves on your hook.
What made you expect that a report that the water was fishing "excellently" meant that it would be so for you? "You should have been here yesterday." So goes the oldest cleche in fishing.
Anticipation, expectation, and everthing else that goes with a day of fishing seems to have been replaced in the minds of so many now. It's all about entitlement, now. And if there's nothing caught? Someone cheated me.
Grouse
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Post by Grommit on Mar 13, 2005 16:15:15 GMT -5
I couldn't have putter it better Grouse I fished semi-serious comps for several years and eventually found myself waking up on the morning of a comp thinking 'God, I have to go fishing today' and just wanting to turn over and go back to sleep I decided enough was enough and finished competition fishing 2 years ago and now fish purely for pleasure on the rivers and some stillwaters in my area and have never enjoyed my fishing more Its not what you catch or the size that matters (my wife might dispute that one though  ) but its the enjoyment you get from it. Some of my best days I have caught nothing or next to nothing but had a great day lying on the river bank watching the wildlife and generally relaxing. I'm not saying I dont enjoy a day on a stillwater and catching a few trout, but it certainly isn't the be all and end all of fishing as some 'anglers' would have you believe |
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Post by guinea on Mar 13, 2005 17:11:15 GMT -5
Anticipation, expectation, and everthing else that goes with a day of fishing seems to have been replaced in the minds of so many now. It's all about entitlement, now. And if there's nothing caught? Someone cheated me. I tried to make the point that I do not enjoy easy fishing with a stockie grabbing every cat's whisker I chuck out. I like a challenge. I like to fish for a whole day too, so because of the advice I was given I bought a more expensive ticket, which, given the way the lake fished, was a rip off. If I was advised to get a cheaper ticket and top it up if needed then I would have, but they don't offer that facility. I am not upset I didn't catch 5 fish, but I am upset I paid for them. I am a carp fisherman too. I can go fishing for 4 or 5 days at a time and not catch a fish and still enjoy myself. Today I went fishing in a new location for a new species expecting to blank, luckily I didn't but I would have enjoyed the day (almost) as much if I had. Fishing isn't just about the catching, but neither is it about lining the pockets of unscrupulous fishery owners. |
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Post by jan on Mar 13, 2005 17:34:24 GMT -5
I am not upset I didn't catch 5 fish, but I am upset I paid for them. . Where is the link from one to the other - you paid to fish - you didnt buy 5 fish from the owner with a guarantee to catch them - if you really feel that you paid for 5 fish then you have lost touch with what fishing is about - fishing should never carry a guarantee or it is pointless - a blank now and then is what builds determination to learn and improve - if you were lucky enough to hook some fish you were entitled to kill 5 of them- not the same thing. It is sad that this is the mindset common in british fishing now - and not just fly fishing -as a charter skipper in a previous life i suffered abusive anglers after poor days - you can only put people on fish - you cant make them feed. |
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Post by MikeConnor on Mar 13, 2005 21:27:50 GMT -5
Before we all jump on those who wish to cath their bag, I'd like to make a quick point. Last weekend I went to a water I don't fish often. I asked how it was fishing and unfortunately the answer was 'excellently'. I wanted to fish for a whole day so this would mean I'd have to buy a 4 or 5 fish ticket at £35+ rather than just £22 for a 2 fish ticket. The water was rock hard. I got one and saw one other fish come out the whole day. Whilst I don't mind hard fishing I felt fleeced out of the extra money I spent. If I am actively recomended to spend extra money I want to catch the fish. "Before we all jump on those who wish to cath their bag," "Their bag"? Like many others, you seem to think you are paying for fish, and not for the privilege of fishing. If you want five ( or six, or eight, or whatever the hell the limit is in such places), then why not just buy them, and save yourself a lot of messing about? Nobody can "fleece" you then either. This attitude has only come about because of the abundance of heavily stocked stillwaters with large or at least takeable fish, and the mindset of many "anglers" who imagine that paying for a ticket automatically entitles them to a bag limit. Or entitles them to catch some bloody huge and horrible finless monstrosity. Preferably a "record". It is merely a parody of angling. This is also why you are obliged to pay ridiculous prices to fish such places. The owners gamble on the fact that quite a few anglers will blank, or merely catch a small number of fish. Thus maximising the owner´s profits. It is a simple calculation. Chuck in a hundred fish, and let two hundred anglers pay to catch them. You don´t seriously imagine that somebody who is doing such a thing for a living is going to give you advice on how to save money do you? At his expense? What a remarkably naive notion! Should you wish to engage in such a pursuit, then that is entirely up to you, but there is little point in moaning about the cost, after the fact, because you, and the others engaged in it, are largely responsible for it in the first place. If you did not behave like sheep, you would not get fleeced. There is far more to angling than catching fish, and those who imagine that they are angling when they go along to "bag up for the freezer" at such venues, are merely deluding themselves, and missing out on a very great number of things. Most unfortunate for them. Just as well that such people tend to keep away from rivers and the like. They would likely be denuded in short order! Money has nothing at all to do with fishing. Fishing is a gut feeling, freedom, joy, happiness, and a lot of other things besides. Money is merely a necessary evil. Should you be unaware of this, then I feel sorry for you. TL MC |
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Post by guinea on Mar 14, 2005 4:58:21 GMT -5
I have just written and deleted a long reply before I posted it. I'd rather not say something I might regret later.
Needless to say I was disappointed that certain people were too stupid to understand that my argument was against the pricing model and less than honest fishery owners.
I don't feel the need to defend where I fish and I don't need lectured on what the spirit of angling and fishing is.
"Its not about catching". Do you think I need to be talked down to like that? I explained in a previous post that catching is not my only motivation.
Don't be so judgemental when fishing. What I've noticed in my years of fishing is that every branch has its share of bigoted idiots. Sea fisherman looking down on mackerel bashers, course fisherman looking down at pole anglers, carp anglers looking down at boillie bashers, fly fisherman looking down at everything. What is comes down to is letting people decide what fishing means for them and letting them get on with it.
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Post by richardw on Mar 14, 2005 5:55:42 GMT -5
Unfortunately this type of angler ( I use the term loosely) seems to be on the increase Last year a friend of mine was fishing a stillwater and there was one guy fishing in the 'hot spot'. After several hours of taking fish after fish he decided to go for lunch, but left all his tackle in the spot where he had been fishing My mate, having caught nothing all morning, thought he would try his luck in the hot spot and sure enough soon had himself a couple of fish. After about an hour, the previous angler returned from his lunch and told my mate, non to politely, to move elsewhere as this was his spot. Unfortunately, my friend isn't known for his patience and told the guy in no uncertain terms what he thought of him hogging the water. The fishery manager, hearing the argument came out and told my mate to 'f***k off, this lad always fishes here and as he comes here more often then you do, he gets the choice of where he wants to fish'!!! Is this a one off, or this now becoming the norm?? If I had been in your mate's position I would have said something along these lines... "Oh! Well you have just given me some food for thought. I had been enjoying your excellent fishery so much today that I was going to pop in and ask you if it was possible to hire the whole fishery three or four times a season for corporate days. We normally pay about (insert figure about twice whatever you estimate he gets in a normal week) per day..." Then I'd shake my head slowly and sadly and pack up and go home. richard |
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Post by Berlin on Mar 14, 2005 6:20:38 GMT -5
TF did run an advert for the powerbait, if I remember correctly it was a full inside back cover page. I remember the furore that followed, and that they did a test - result no real benefit possibly the opposite. Alan, That was Ultrabite and completely different stuff. This whole thing depends on what you consider you are buying at the time you buy your ticket. Fishereis can charge, as I see it in three ways. For Fishing, for fish and for time. First is the Catch and release ticket where you pay for permission to catch and return his fish. Next is Fish, you buy a 4 fish ticket so technically you own 4 fish in that lake and its up to you to get them out. Finally there is time. You buy 5 hours at the fishery and if you catch something you get to keep it up to a certain level of fish. If a ticket is for 4 fish then technically you are entitled to take four fish. If you are crap enough to require the use of bait then you are just crap. If however you catch them "fair and square" then you have every right to take them home. But this is not fishing. This is *catching*. The two are completely different and miles apart. With catching the end result is taking fish home. Whether you enjoyed it or not is immateral. We fly fish *because* its difficult. So whays the point of being crap and using bait at the same time? And the guy who went to lunch and left his gear behind would have found it nicely packed away and sitting just off the peg when he got back. If he'd had a single word to say about it he would have been swimming it he was talking to me. If he got out and had more to say about it he would be back in the water but bleeding the next time. Hogging a peg is nothing more than greed and I cant stand greed  |
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Post by Cothi on Mar 14, 2005 7:11:16 GMT -5
And the guy who went to lunch and left his gear behind would have found it nicely packed away and sitting just off the peg when he got back. If he'd had a single word to say about it he would have been swimming it he was talking to me. If he got out and had more to say about it he would be back in the water but bleeding the next time. Hogging a peg is nothing more than greed and I cant stand greed Do you want to re-think that one Carl? Two wrongs..............Let's not add unseemly behaviour to an already stinking pot. We are being a bit harsh on Guinea. He is not, from his words, the kind of person described by Grouse and Mike. He got a bit ticked off by what he percieved to be a rip-off - perhaps there was not much else to enjoy at this particular fishery. Having said that, the mentality that the lads were banging on about is increasingly prevalent and to be abhorred. |
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Post by fishgb on Mar 14, 2005 7:13:28 GMT -5
Last year a friend of mine was fishing a stillwater and there was one guy fishing in the 'hot spot'. After several hours of taking fish after fish he decided to go for lunch, but left all his tackle in the spot where he had been fishing Makes one wonder if groundbaiting was involved doesn't it? gb |
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Post by Allnips on Mar 14, 2005 7:21:39 GMT -5
This is all making me feel rather naive as to what people actually get up to. If I blank..I blank....not good enough on the day, simple as that. Drive home and think about the tackle, conditions and tactics used. Never ever thought that the people around me catching fish maybe up to something else.  |
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Post by Berlin on Mar 14, 2005 7:49:10 GMT -5
Do you want to re-think that one Carl? Two wrongs..............Let's not add unseemly behaviour to an already stinking pot. . Nope, People like this thrive on the fact that no one ever stands up to them. He'd have definately got wet. and its not two wrongs as I see it. I see it as correcting an injustice. I we let people walk all over you they tend to see everyone as a doormat. Cheers, Carl |
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Post by Cothi on Mar 14, 2005 7:56:08 GMT -5
It's two wrongs all right. You become part of the problem. Do you think that would be the end of it. He would have been taught a lesson and all that and would not do it again? Don't be so daft. Think again young man.
It would escalate and although he might end up in the drink you would most likely end up in the proverbial.
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Post by fishgb on Mar 14, 2005 8:09:13 GMT -5
Incidentally, this sort of attitude is not new, we were having similar discussions in the 70's and 80's.
I even remember a certain "Guru" of the 60's and 70's who was caught using bread....... In his case I suspect an amount of desperation to ensure that his "name" continued to be prominent in the catch records.
gb
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) but its the enjoyment you get from it.
