Robin
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Posts: 221
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Post by Robin on Dec 28, 2005 15:44:05 GMT -5
As a cane maker,a somewhat dilatory cane maker ,I thought to see if anyone is planning to put character back into their trouting next season? I can always put you onto some good tapers for Chapmans to make for you! robin
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Post by finecanerods on Dec 31, 2005 7:02:11 GMT -5
Hi Robin, I see your post has created a wealth of replies so I will pitch in. Firstly, please carry on batting on the side of cane, all's one for that. However, for what it is worth, I don't think you will persuade many of the uninitiated to swap their latest piece of technology for a cane rod. In my experience those who fish cane fall into two basic categories; those who have done so for years are very happy and see no reason to change and those who have had the opportunity to try a good cane rod and after recovering from the shock of how useable it is become addicts. I'm afraid the power of written or verbal persuasion however accurate does not hold much weight against the massive advertising of major manufacturers. The interesting thing here is of course that the graphite makers need to refresh themselves every year with the latest wonder model that is a "must have" if you ever want to catch another fish and consigns all previous incarnations to the junk pile. Whereas a good cane rod may last a lifetime and will continue to delight by doing what it was designed for, delivering a fly delicately and accurately year after year. Have a happy new year. Gary www.finecanerods.com
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Hove
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Brecon Beacons Valley Streams
Posts: 145
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Post by Hove on Jan 3, 2006 8:45:34 GMT -5
Hi Robin, do ya know of any tapers for a rod around around 8ft (no shorter, but definatly an inch or so longer) for a #2 line?
Cheers Hove
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Robin
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Posts: 221
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Post by Robin on Jan 4, 2006 19:24:18 GMT -5
Its a funny size,for two reasons. 1)Most designs for very light line weights are for rods of 7',or even less. 2)there has been much debate on this,but I find it difficult to be happy about rods for such light lines,as their design ,if the thing has to be actually made,that is,are horrendously compromised.you end up with unfeasibly small tip diameters,for instance. Go into Hexrod,via Google,and view a raft of classic designs,very few rodmakers like gooing below a#3,and thats marginal. Its not that I cannot generate you the tapers,its just that in order to make it makeable my adjustments will make it a very experimental rod indeed! Robin
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Post by finecanerods on Jan 5, 2006 7:38:10 GMT -5
Hi Robin,
I have a Cattanach taper for a 2 piece 7ft 6in #2 which I can send you if you like? Personally I agree with your comments. 7ft 6in is the longest taper for #2 I have ever seen. The one noted above has a 54 thou tip and a number 11 ferrule so it is quite viable.
Regards
Gary
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Post by FlyBri on Jan 5, 2006 8:30:07 GMT -5
Hi Robin, I see your post has created a wealth of replies so I will pitch in. Firstly, please carry on batting on the side of cane, all's one for that. However, for what it is worth, I don't think you will persuade many of the uninitiated to swap their latest piece of technology for a cane rod. In my experience those who fish cane fall into two basic categories; those who have done so for years are very happy and see no reason to change and those who have had the opportunity to try a good cane rod and after recovering from the shock of how useable it is become addicts. I'm afraid the power of written or verbal persuasion however accurate does not hold much weight against the massive advertising of major manufacturers. The interesting thing here is of course that the graphite makers need to refresh themselves every year with the latest wonder model that is a "must have" if you ever want to catch another fish and consigns all previous incarnations to the junk pile. Whereas a good cane rod may last a lifetime and will continue to delight by doing what it was designed for, delivering a fly delicately and accurately year after year. Have a happy new year. Gary www.finecanerods.comThis third category you omitted being those who've read Gierach? ;)
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Hove
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Brecon Beacons Valley Streams
Posts: 145
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Post by Hove on Jan 5, 2006 8:40:19 GMT -5
Robin, thanks for feedback... I ask of this size as my go to rod is 8ft2" for a 1 line but fishes the DT2 I have very nicely, but of course , It's graph.. For cane,I have the ideal rod in mind, Made by Bjarne Fries, 'The Noodle'. At 8ft for a #2-3, the reel seat as standard on this rod is a beaut , especially if you like full cork, No Bling, not to mention the FIBH Ferrrule , very very nice indeed... Affording that right now, not in a blue moon , but as ever , im eager to get into cane and will look into rods of that length perhaps in the definate #3 range that may perhaps all ready be tried, tested and faoured tapers... One of chapmans that stands out amongst the list is the Garrison 191 I think? 6ft9" for a #3, just right for a few streams I know.... Cheers Hove
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Post by darren on Jan 5, 2006 11:35:31 GMT -5
The name HOVE, ring,s a bell. Are you the guy, From wales. That was offered, the cane rod & reel , from stephen. At a very cheap price. It was a green river rod, & reel. A year or so back.
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Post by finecanerods on Jan 5, 2006 12:10:07 GMT -5
To Flybri, I agree, so we are up to three and counting!
To Hove, the 6ft 9in Garrison rod you mention is the 193 and is rated as #4 on the Rodmakers list although doubtless it would handle a #3. It has a 62.5 thou tip and an 11/64 ferrule.
Regards
Gary
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Robin
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Posts: 221
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Post by Robin on Jan 5, 2006 12:20:51 GMT -5
Bjarne is a very very advanced rodmaker indeed,hence the price. Trying to get chapmans to make anything either he or I may design to minimise the compromises may not be possible,for instance I doubt they will want to make such fine tips. Perhaps you could ask them how low they will go? Using Hexrod you can always generate the tapers for a longer version,but,even then,we are too near the ragged edge here to be certain that the first attempt will be what you want. 54 thou is a very challenging tip diameter,and very prone to accidental damage. Try first to find an existing design thats near what you want,and that Chapmans will make,and then you will know how to modify it to suit you . My own personal view,which you may have deduced is that whilst I will end up designing and making an8'6''#3 for my own amusement and research,until I have done that I am very reticent about foisting it on anyone else untried and untested! robin
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Post by finecanerods on Jan 6, 2006 10:42:51 GMT -5
No need to get too hung up on tip sizes unless you are dead set on scaling some particular taper. My regular use 8ft #5 has a 58 thou tip but the 7ft #3 I am making at the moment has a tip of 69 thou and both are very nice tapers, just different. I am sure a viable #2 could be made with sensible tip but that, as I am sure you are aware, is not the problem!
Regards
Gary
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Hove
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Brecon Beacons Valley Streams
Posts: 145
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Post by Hove on Jan 6, 2006 13:18:42 GMT -5
...Gary, youre right, the 193 it is, and every where I have looked is rated for a #4 like you say, I can go with that all the same...
Thanks both for your input on the 8fter, some good info for me to go on
Robin, Finding a rod of around the length I want (ie:8ft) as close as I can get to the lite line rating im after is a good idea,,, a little research im sure will get me close to where i want to get
Cheers
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Robin
Full Member
Posts: 221
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Post by Robin on Jan 8, 2006 20:31:05 GMT -5
With rod design youn learn what you like by reference to what you don't like,as much as anything. So the trick is to find rods you like,discover their tapers,and then either modify them,or other rods which may be nearer ideal,in line with your preferences. There are no right or wrong preferences,just yours,mine and other peoples! Rodmakers list has been having a wonderful time discussing the holy Grail of rod design lately. Everyone has their own Holy Grail,you just have to go and waggle a few hundred rods to find out what it is! R
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Robin
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Posts: 221
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Post by Robin on Jan 8, 2006 20:39:03 GMT -5
One other thing,there is nothing at all wrong with Garrison tapers. But you need to understand that they were designed for casting silk lines fairly short distances. If you are used to punching triple hauls through modern composite rods with tapers like ice cream cones they will feel very unusual. The act of becoming accustomed to them so that you can see their advanytages in the situations they were designed for is one more step in becoming a fully rounded fly fisherman. Its a bit like getting to like oysters,nobody ever regretted the effort it took! Robin
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Hove
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Brecon Beacons Valley Streams
Posts: 145
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Post by Hove on Jan 9, 2006 5:54:42 GMT -5
QuoteRodmakers list has been having a wonderful time discussing the holy Grail of rod design lately. Everyone has their own Holy Grail,you just have to go and waggle a few hundred rods to find out what it is!Ha ha ha, I bet... Just a few hundred eh, I couldnt think of anything i'd rather do QuoteOne other thing,there is nothing at all wrong with Garrison tapers. But you need to understand that they were designed for casting silk lines fairly short distances.This I can totally appreciate, my preference being for a softer rod as nearly most of my fishing is done at close range in some very tight upper tributaries. A quick load become essential with as minimal line as the rod is capable of loading.... Thats the ticket for me really... Ive cast a couple canes on some favourite spots, one unmarked rod @ 7ft for a #3 & another which was an allcocks which was described to me as "an affordable mans cane back then". Both rods felt soo nice to fish compared to the particualr graph I was fishing... Cheers Cheers
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